Clausen poised for improvement?

[jtnc]

I really hope we get a Clipboard Vet. Because I'm a little nervous with that QB coach.

[panthers55]

If we were bringing in a veteran, I want a guy who can start, not just hold a clipboard. If he is the backup, it will be because the starter is playing very well.

I say lets see how really good Shula is this year. Lets bring in Young and see if Shula can save him. LOL

Seriously, I want someone who would be competition for Clausen or capable of starting in this league and playing at a high level.

[Cyberjag]

That's going to be pretty tricky. You either get a guy with potential, like Caleb Hanie, or you get a proven vet who's mainly proven that they're best suited to be a backup, like Volek. You're already gambling with Clausen, do you really want to double down on that with a "potential" guy and risk having Clausen and Moore all over again?

Unless you go out and get Carson Palmer, or maybe luck into a Kyle Orton trade, that's the likely scenario.

[panthers55]

That's going to be pretty tricky. You either get a guy with potential, like Caleb Hanie, or you get a proven vet who's mainly proven that they're best suited to be a backup, like Volek. You're already gambling with Clausen, do you really want to double down on that with a "potential" guy and risk having Clausen and Moore all over again?

Unless you go out and get Carson Palmer, or maybe luck into a Kyle Orton trade, that's the likely scenario.

The problem with Palmer is that he only wants to be a starter not a backup and might chafe is he weren't the one. At least Orton has been a backup and knows what to do. Can't say I would be opposed to getting Kyle if the price was reasonable.

As for who may be available otherwise, that is up in the air. Who was Delhomme when he got here? An undrafted guy who was a career backup to Aaron Brooks.

I don't see another Clausen/Moore type battle in training camp as a bad thing. I hope there are 3 guys battling it out. Clausen, a rookie, and a veteran with the coaching staff having no clear favorite. Everyone gets a shot to see what they can do. Once we get that established starter who plays at a high level, we can worry about egos and confidence. Until then. it should be an open competition between the best guys we can find. We need to upgrade the position in a big way.

[CRA]

Matt Moore didn't screw Fox up?

Moore lost week 1 and got a concussion. Fox benched him week 2 and flushed an entire offseason of planning prep during week 2........so no, I don't think we can blame Moore for Fox not getting his 8-8 season. Fox ended the season when he called a winnable game unwinnable in week 2 and not giving Moore a fair shot.

[mav1234]

WHen the offense gets better, JC will get better. Newton, Gabbert, Bradford, Montana, YA Title, etc. would have sucked here last season. All of them.

Sure, they may have sucked... but by most accounts, Matt Moore did better than Clausen. That means that we could expect some amount of improvement from quarterbacks better than Matt Moore. Of those you mentioned, there are at least a couple that are likely better than Moore was last year.

Sucking is one thing. Jimmy Clausen was something else.

Give him a chance in camp, but for the love of god, stop making excuses for him.

[MHS831]

Sure, they may have sucked... but by most accounts, Matt Moore did better than Clausen. That means that we could expect some amount of improvement from quarterbacks better than Matt Moore. Of those you mentioned, there are at least a couple that are likely better than Moore was last year.

Sucking is one thing. Jimmy Clausen was something else.

Give him a chance in camp, but for the love of god, stop making excuses for him.

NO. you are wrong. Statistically, in 2010 Clausen was rated HIGHER than Moore--NO EXCUSES.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/final-nfl-quarterback-rankings-for-2010

This is why I suspect the system. Facts tend to work best in a disagreement. You speculate and then use that speculation as fact. No wonder you are so confused. If Lineman_domination gave me pie, I would check my facts and probably change my opinion.

Why is it so hard to consider the fact that the system collapsed on a rookie QB? A veteran with a 6-2 record sucked and so did a second round rookie. Does that mean the second round rookie will suck next year when he has a new system, new coach, experienced WRs and a healthy line? NO, It does not.

[Punisher]

NO. you are wrong. Statistically, in 2010 Clausen was rated HIGHER than Moore--NO EXCUSES.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/final-nfl-quarterback-rankings-for-2010

This is why I suspect the system. Facts tend to work best in a disagreement. You speculate and then use that speculation as fact. No wonder you are so confused. If Lineman_domination gave me pie, I would check my facts and probably change my opinion.

Why is it so hard to consider the fact that the system collapsed on a rookie QB? A veteran with a 6-2 record sucked and so did a second round rookie. Does that mean the second round rookie will suck next year when he has a new system, new coach, experienced WRs and a healthy line? NO, It does not.

No but what will make that QB suck is that he is small, has a slow low release, can't feel pressure, has no guts to make throws needed at this level, no speed or ability to escape any pressure that he can't feel, will not use the middle of the field, weak ball security, average arm strength, low intangibles, and the teams best offensive player hates him.

The Clausen defenders point to the Cardinal game as a defining game for him because he had a "decent" game. ROFL. He had 140 yards passing; for some QB's that is an average half for them. And this was against a piss poor team, and he couldn't break 200 yards passing. I remember when I use to rag on Vick because he could barely get 200 yards passing, but he put up better passing numbers than Clausen did, and he won games with his legs.

But Jimmy is NFL ready and was suppose to be a top 5 pick, so we are set. :rolleyes:

[mav1234]

NO. you are wrong. Statistically, in 2010 Clausen was rated HIGHER than Moore--NO EXCUSES.

haha dude. Ok, so statistically, Clausen had a better QB rating than Moore, great. Luckily, QB rating isn't the be all end all of quarterbacking. Now, if you'll recall from watching the games, Moore did some things Clausen was just not able to at any point all season, and yes, that includes getting the ball into the endzone to his receivers. If you really believe Clausen played better than Moore, well... okay, I don't know what to say. He certainly protected the ball better I guess. That's about all I can say for him though.

Obviously the system failed, but this idea that "nobody would have looked better" is preposterous. The running game took off late in the season and Clausen still looked lost and confused in nearly every game. While he got Gettis and Lafell the ball, it didn't seem to make any difference to the scores in our games and the only time he was able to punch it in was when Stew or King snuck free.

Why is it so hard to accept that maybe Jimmy sucked in addition to the system sucking? Why must it have been everyone else's fault?

[MHS831]

haha dude. Ok, so statistically, Clausen had a better QB rating than Moore, great. Luckily, QB rating isn't the be all end all of quarterbacking. Now, if you'll recall from watching the games, Moore did some things Clausen was just not able to at any point all season, and yes, that includes getting the ball into the endzone to his receivers. If you really believe Clausen played better than Moore, well... okay, I don't know what to say. He certainly protected the ball better I guess. That's about all I can say for him though.

Obviously the system failed, but this idea that "nobody would have looked better" is preposterous. The running game took off late in the season and Clausen still looked lost and confused in nearly every game. While he got Gettis and Lafell the ball, it didn't seem to make any difference to the scores in our games and the only time he was able to punch it in was when Stew or King snuck free.

Why is it so hard to accept that maybe Jimmy sucked in addition to the system sucking? Why must it have been everyone else's fault?

Bold: Putting words in my mouth again. Do you think a rookie looking confused in every game is all his fault?

Why make a point and when I prove it wrong, downplay it? Was your point weak to begin with? How can it go from the core of your argument when you say it to insignificant and trivial when disproven? You really aren't interested in facts, are you? Your mind is closed and you are on a path to convince everyone that your theory is correct. Screw the external variables, screw facts, just keep pumping the pessimism. Are you that good of a talent evaluator? If so, you should have a better job. It is too early to tell about JC-that is all.

[MHS831]

No but what will make that QB suck is that he is small, has a slow low release, can't feel pressure, has no guts to make throws needed at this level, no speed or ability to escape any pressure that he can't feel, will not use the middle of the field, weak ball security, average arm strength, low intangibles, and the teams best offensive player hates him.

The Clausen defenders point to the Cardinal game as a defining game for him because he had a "decent" game. ROFL. He had 140 yards passing; for some QB's that is an average half for them. And this was against a piss poor team, and he couldn't break 200 yards passing. I remember when I use to rag on Vick because he could barely get 200 yards passing, but he put up better passing numbers than Clausen did, and he won games with his legs.

But Jimmy is NFL ready and was suppose to be a top 5 pick, so we are set. :rolleyes:

You keep arguing as if I said he had a good year. All I am saying is that it would take a narrow-minded person to evaluate him under the conditions he played in this season. You seem to have difficulty comprehending that. I am saying that it is too early to judge him. You are saying that you know enough about this to determine he sucks. You need to apply for a job in scouting, because the Panthers have not taken him out of their plans yet. They will bring in competition, but they should. You could save the experts a lot of time with your insight. You probably want the computer-stealing, exam-cheating, simple-offense running, NCAA violating, self-priomoting 1-year wonder from Auburn to lead us. I am right, aren't I?

[mav1234]

Bold: Putting words in my mouth again. Do you think a rookie looking confused in every game is all his fault?

I've never said it was all his fault, just that he was a major contributor. Are you agreeing that there are a multitude of quarterbacks that would have looked better last year? If so, the argument is pointless. You listed a bunch of QBs and said they all would have "sucked." While possibly true, we have no idea how bad they would have sucked, and most complaints about Clausen aren't just that he sucked, but the level at which he sucked.

Why make a point and when I prove it wrong, downplay it? Was your point weak to begin with? How can it go from the core of your argument when you say it to insignificant and trivial when disproven? You really aren't interested in facts, are you? Your mind is closed and you are on a path to convince everyone that your theory is correct. Screw the external variables, screw facts, just keep pumping the pessimism. Are you that good of a talent evaluator? If so, you should have a better job. It is too early to tell about JC-that is all.

Haha, wow. I never once said that Matt Moore was better than Jimmy Clausen when it came to quarterback rating. I said that he did better than Clausen when it came to quarterback play, and he did. Let's look at the metrics he did better than Clausen at: Touchdowns. Yards per attempt. Yards per game (Started). Completion percentage. On 3rd down, where he completed 66.7% of his passes (50% for Clausen). All of this was with a running game that was averaging far fewer yards and points than later in the season. I'm NOT saying we should plan on building around Moore, just pointing out that if he did better, it's reasonable to think that perhaps OTHER quarterbacks could have, too.

Let me ask you this about QB rating. Do you think Jimmy outplayed Brees in New Orleans? Did he outplay Palmer against Cincy? Is QB rating really the only metric you can use to evaluate a player?

Look, I'm not saying Jimmy Clausen is doomed to failure. I'm just saying that he sucked last year, and he was a big part of why the offense was so bad. It's too early to say Clausen's career is over, but it's not too early to consider going in a different direction. Even the franchise admits that. That alone should tell you something about his play last year.

[Punisher]

You keep arguing as if I said he had a good year. All I am saying is that it would take a narrow-minded person to evaluate him under the conditions he played in this season. You seem to have difficulty comprehending that. I am saying that it is too early to judge him. You are saying that you know enough about this to determine he sucks. You need to apply for a job in scouting, because the Panthers have not taken him out of their plans yet. They will bring in competition, but they should. You could save the experts a lot of time with your insight. You probably want the computer-stealing, exam-cheating, simple-offense running, NCAA violating, self-priomoting 1-year wonder from Auburn to lead us. I am right, aren't I?

No I'm not evaluating him under the conditions that he played under last season, I'm evaluating him based on size, arm strength, poise as was mentioned in the above post. You seem to be the one having trouble comprehending anything.

Though if I have any questions about hypothetical trade situations, I'll be sure to ask you.

[mav1234]

With Clausen, you have to evaluate him under the conditions he played under last year. However, you don't judge his entire career based on it. You bring in competition, you let him and some others go at it (one of which could even be a rookie), and you see what happens. But you certainly don't expect him to do well. You don't plan around him being your franchise guy unless you're sold on him, and I doubt you are after last year. You make plans in case he doesn't end up working out in the long term. You give him a chance, you see what he can do, because he was a rookie in a bad system, but you know you have to upgrade the position, too, in case it wasn't just the bad system.