So let me get this straight, you guys hate Clausen and Edwards yet...

[jtnc]

And you can prove Cam Newton will be the next big Ben? McNair ? Both didn't have the knocks on them newton does esp the fact he is horrible at reading defenses.

Clausen couldn't see a blitz if it was right in front of him. Hell, he doesn't even know clock management.

[mountainpantherfan]

I'm not saying to not draft him or draft him.

Newton is a project. He has potential to be great QB b/c of his talent and intangibles but you can't draft and plug him in like a Matt Ryan.

Carolina needs to find some average QB play.......that guy will allow the offense to run/grow while a future QB gets the basics under control.

I don't see the logic in continuing to stick young QBs on the field who aren't ready(Clausen)......especially in a new offense. It prohibits the rest of the team from doing what they need to do. Need a band-aid so the rest of the team isn't falling behind while they search for the future franchise QB.

Thanks for clarifying and I agree.

[SmokeScreen]

if we do end up drafting cam 1st overall i might not be pissed at all...

[mountainpantherfan]

Rayzor, I'm with you on a lot of issues but "learning on the job" when it comes to NFL QB's isn't one of them.

There are some QB's who are better suited to learn some of the parts of playing in the NFL by going out and playing, I will give you that. That doesn't mean it applies to all. Steve Young took a couple of years and a failed starting experience on another team before he became a HOF.

Newton could be a great NFL QB. But he will not be one if he is forced into starting his first year i.e. the best QB option by default or injury.

Now if at any point he beats out the other competition, thats another story but considering his background, it will take some time in practice to start picking up how to read a NFL defense before the snap, something he has only been asked to do after the snap. (This is something very important that most are overlooking.)

[rayzor]

Rayzor, I'm with you on a lot of issues but "learning on the job" when it comes to NFL QB's isn't one of them.

There are some QB's who are better suited to learn some of the parts of playing in the NFL by going out and playing, I will give you that. That doesn't mean it applies to all. Steve Young took a couple of years and a failed starting experience on another team before he became a HOF.

Newton could be a great NFL QB. But he will not be one if he is forced into starting his first year i.e. the best QB option by default or injury.

Now if at any point he beats out the other competition, thats another story but considering his background, it will take some time in practice to start picking up how to read a NFL defense before the snap, something he has only been asked to do after the snap. (This is something very important that most are overlooking.)

i think most of the league agrees with me, though. thats why you see more and more QBs getting the start early. if it made more sense to have them sit on the bench a couple years, you would have more teams doing it, but in the past few years you've been seeing (well maybe you haven't) more and more players getting the start as a rookie. you may not think it's a good idea, but teams that are forward thinking are getting them in earlier. john fox is the guy who said it wasn't a good idea to get a rookie in there and the only reason he got one is was because he was forced into it. the only teams that aren't starting rookie QBs are the ones who have a franchise guy already entrenched in the job (like what happened with rodgers) or the guys that get one out of a trade (orton/cutler) or the guys who luck out with a stud coming out in FA (brees).

for the most part when a team drafts a rookie, you see him getting the start in the first season.

what you said about them not being able to read defenses...the only time and way that you can really learn to read them and see what they are doing is being in the game. unless the QB has a helmet cam, there's no way a QB can see what it really looks like from that unique vantage point. compare that with video and a good teacher who can help you understand what is going on and you can learn it.

yes, you can learn it in practice, but you can learn it quicker in practice and in real game situations. if you are just confined to practice, you only get used to seeing your defense.

[Mr. Scot]

i think most of the league agrees with me, though. thats why you see more and more QBs getting the start early. if it made more sense to have them sit on the bench a couple years, you would have more teams doing it, but in the past few years you've been seeing (well maybe you haven't) more and more players getting the start as a rookie. you may not think it's a good idea, but teams that are forward thinking are getting them in earlier. john fox is the guy who said it wasn't a good idea to get a rookie in there and the only reason he got one is was because he was forced into it. the only teams that aren't starting rookie QBs are the ones who have a franchise guy already entrenched in the job (like what happened with rodgers) or the guys that get one out of a trade (orton/cutler) or the guys who luck out with a stud coming out in FA (brees).

for the most part when a team drafts a rookie, you see him getting the start in the first season.

what you said about them not being able to read defenses...the only time and way that you can really learn to read them and see what they are doing is being in the game. unless the QB has a helmet cam, there's no way a QB can see what it really looks like from that unique vantage point. compare that with video and a good teacher who can help you understand what is going on and you can learn it.

yes, you can learn it in practice, but you can learn it quicker in practice and in real game situations. if you are just confined to practice, you only get used to seeing your defense.

Listening to Rivera tells me he feels just the opposite. He's said more than once he doesn't like that QBs these days are under pressure to start from day one. That's one of the reasons he's given for why he thinks Clausen deserves the benefit of a doubt.

[nationsford]

You guys hate that Clausen and Edwards sucked in their first season, yet you want to get a QB at the number one pick in the draft that will undoubtly not look good for at least two years and could very well be the next JaMarcus Russell.

BOOOO just BOOO!

[rayzor]

Listening to Rivera tells me he feels just the opposite. He's said more than once he doesn't like that QBs these days are under pressure to start from day one. That's one of the reasons he's given for why he thinks Clausen deserves the benefit of a doubt.

benefit of the doubt, yes. sitting him on the bench in favor of some old guy who has no future, nah. i don't agree with that at all.

i think it's fine to get them in the game, esp if they show the most potential. just lower expectations and allow room for error and growth. protect the guy and give him the tools he needs around him and the game plan that is simple enough to carry out and he'll be fine.

it's better if a young team can grow together and take their lumps together. QB has to get used to it.

again, that doesn't mean being entitled to it. they still have to earn it, but the competition in front of him might not be all that stout or else you might not have drafted him in the first place.

[Sloth]

I'm sure in one off-season Clausen will get taller, completely fix his screwed up delivery, add a ton of arm strength and overcome his phobia of a pass rush all while learning a new offensive system.

I'm also sure Rivera is willing to hitch his wagon to a journeyman/Clausen tandem for a few years in his first HC gig. I'm sure he's fine going for 4 or 5 wins this season (hi Volek) and hoping Luck declares next season. Or the one after that.

[blackcatgrowl]

I'm sure in one off-season Clausen will get taller, completely fix his screwed up delivery, add a ton of arm strength and overcome his phobia of a pass rush all while learning a new offensive system.

I'm also sure Rivera is willing to hitch his wagon to a journeyman/Clausen tandem for a few years in his first HC gig. I'm sure he's fine going for 4 or 5 wins this season (hi Volek) and hoping Luck declares next season. Or the one after that.

Hey, look... some sarcasm just dripped off your post. You want it back? :D

[Mr. Scot]

benefit of the doubt, yes. sitting him on the bench in favor of some old guy who has no future, nah. i don't agree with that at all.

i think it's fine to get them in the game, esp if they show the most potential. just lower expectations and allow room for error and growth. protect the guy and give him the tools he needs around him and the game plan that is simple enough to carry out and he'll be fine.

it's better if a young team can grow together and take their lumps together. QB has to get used to it.

again, that doesn't mean being entitled to it. they still have to earn it, but the competition in front of him might not be all that stout or else you might not have drafted him in the first place.

My preferred approach is still to give them a year or so to adjust to the pro game before throwing them into the fire. Even if we could draft Luck, I'd still prefer he sit a year.

This season, I thnk Clausen gets the first shot at starting. If he fails, then whatever vet pickup the team has made becomes the fallback / failsafe. If, at the end of the season, Clausen still isn't up to snuff, we go QB hunting next year when the pickings won't be quite so slim.

[rayzor]

I'm also sure Rivera is willing to hitch his wagon to a journeyman/Clausen tandem for a few years in his first HC gig. I'm sure he's fine going for 4 or 5 wins this season (hi Volek) and hoping Luck declares next season. Or the one after that.

yeah, this is the thing that i just can't see much benefit in. it's a very cautious start very much like what fox would have done.

i'm tired of passively looking for a safe, sometimes reliable, and average QB.

[CRA]

benefit of the doubt, yes. sitting him on the bench in favor of some old guy who has no future, nah. i don't agree with that at all.

i think it's fine to get them in the game, esp if they show the most potential. just lower expectations and allow room for error and growth. protect the guy and give him the tools he needs around him and the game plan that is simple enough to carry out and he'll be fine.

it's better if a young team can grow together and take their lumps together. QB has to get used to it.

again, that doesn't mean being entitled to it. they still have to earn it, but the competition in front of him might not be all that stout or else you might not have drafted him in the first place.

so let's say Clausen does what most QBs do in the NFL.....they don't dramatically improve going into year 2.

you would prefer to just play him and prevent Chud's offense from even remotely fuctioning (it does put an emphasis on the vertical attack). That means everyone on both sides of the ball get put behind the 8 ball while trying to pick up and install a the new offense/Rivera systems. That also puts a delay on the growth of young recievers like AE, Gettis, and LaFell and the offense in general.

that would do more good then bringing in a band aid that could remotely allow Rivera's team to get the ground work going?

[SmootsDaddy89]

Any QB drafted could be the next Jamarcus Russell. Unless he's white. Then he's the next Ryan Leaf.