I'm starting 2 hope Jimmy can prove people wrong.

[Cyberjag]

You guys all act like Clausen is your boy from back when and the franchise is so invested in him that they must give him another shot.

Rivera won't care about last year, he cares about the future and you are all idiots if you think he's going to "give Jimmy another shot" because he was in a bad spot.

After the hire I've stated multiple times that they need to bring in competition and if he wins it then he should start and I'll be fine with that but lately I'm getting a "hunch" that he will be cut before the season starts. Just a hunch.

Of course when that doesn't happen will we get you to admit you were wrong? Of course not. I've got a "hunch" Moore won't be a Panther. And Clausen will probably be #2 on the roster and depth chart

I'll say it again--I think he'll come to camp and win the job outright. The only guy that can beat him out is the one who's a quality NFL starter, and those are all either already starting somewhere or they're under contract. The Billy Volek's of the world may be as good as I think he is in camp, but they won't be better. So the coaches will go with building for the future.

Clausen's our most probable starter next year. And I like my crow slow-cooked in a smoker if he's not.

[Cyberjag]

the production is what matters. the prodcution in Chud's offense came from throws 10 yards or further. YES, he completed passes shorter. But the offense functioned b/c of being able to go downfield (10-20 yards).

beating a dead horse. Clausen can't stay in a pocket and let plays develop. He didn't in college. He didn't this season. You think he somehow will learn to stay in the pocket and on top of that make throws over NFL lines......I don't. I hope he does but I just don't think it is realistic from his play.

I don't believe you really hope he does, there's nothing resembling optimism or encouragement in any post you make about him.

I do believe he's going to be more than fine.

[TheRealDeal]

I'll say it again--I think he'll come to camp and win the job outright. The only guy that can beat him out is the one who's a quality NFL starter, and those are all either already starting somewhere or they're under contract. The Billy Volek's of the world may be as good as I think he is in camp, but they won't be better. So the coaches will go with building for the future.

Clausen's our most probable starter next year. And I like my crow slow-cooked in a smoker if he's not.

You think he'll beat out Moore or you think our coaches will let Moore walk?

Basically you're saying if they bring in no competition he'll win.:crazy:

[TheRealDeal]

I don't believe you really hope he does, there's nothing resembling optimism or encouragement in any post you make about him.

I do believe he's going to be more than fine.

This isn't fuging T-Ball. This is a grown man's game.

[Carl Spackler]

That's hinging on the belief that if his name isn't Matt Moore he isn't competition.

[Dpantherman]

I'll say it again. I don't give a rats ass who plays at QB, as long as its the best person for the job. Im not going to advocate or advertise for anyone. At the same time, im not going to hope they screw up, or fail, because thats bad for the team.

[Cyberjag]

You think he'll beat out Moore or you think our coaches will let Moore walk?

Basically you're saying if they bring in no competition he'll win.:crazy:

Moore, I'm not so sure about. I don't know that they'll bring him back though, he's going to cost a lot more than he's worth, and if he gets caught in a numbers game I think he loses. That's pure guesswork, take if for nothing more than that. And they may bring him back on the cheap after he tests the market and finds no takers.

I'm thinking more about all the Volek talk, and talk about other guys like him.

And I should also add that if they go get someone who's growing into the job, like Moore was supposed to be last year (think someone like Caleb Hanie), then Clausen may not win those battles either. But against old vets, he will.

[TheRealDeal]

That's hinging on the belief that if his name isn't Matt Moore he isn't competition.

Bringing in a guy that has more years in the league than starts isn't real competition.

[TheRealDeal]

Moore, I'm not so sure about. I don't know that they'll bring him back though, he's going to cost a lot more than he's worth, and if he gets caught in a numbers game I think he loses. That's pure guesswork, take if for nothing more than that. And they may bring him back on the cheap after he tests the market and finds no takers.

I'm thinking more about all the Volek talk, and talk about other guys like him.

And I should also add that if they go get someone who's growing into the job, like Moore was supposed to be last year (think someone like Caleb Hanie), then Clausen may not win those battles either. But against old vets, he will.

So basically you are saying ONLY if they bring someone in who is a mentor and has no chance at being a legit QB in this league will Clausen beat them out?

Great...

On a side note, you are crazy if you don't think Moore will have takers, and that is not guesswork. He will have a job in the NFL, I just hope it's with us.

[Happy Panther]

I'll say it again--I think he'll come to camp and win the job outright. The only guy that can beat him out is the one who's a quality NFL starter, and those are all either already starting somewhere or they're under contract. The Billy Volek's of the world may be as good as I think he is in camp, but they won't be better. So the coaches will go with building for the future.

I could name 20 available QBs who would win the job over Clausen

[TheRealDeal]

Moore, I'm not so sure about. I don't know that they'll bring him back though, he's going to cost a lot more than he's worth, and if he gets caught in a numbers game I think he loses.

Basically here's what this says:

1. Moore would beat out Clausen for the starting job.

2. This franchise is going to let the better QB option walk out the door, we'd rather stick with the pootier option than pay someone $4mil a year

3. Even though he's the best QB on the roster, we're likely to keep Pike, who was a throwaway pick, and Clausen, the worst starter in the NFL, because that makes more sense.

Is that what you're trying to say? I'm confused by your logic?

[Icege]

Regardless of whether or not the QB is Moore or Clausen, I highly doubt that the position is going to be anything less than obviously (not dramatically) improved. While this is very much a what have you done for me lately league with fans that want everything microwaveable (translation: expect immediate results), reality still applies.

The coaching situation has improved. That part can't be denied. Whether or not the QBs have grown positively from this season won't be known until there back out on the the field tossing the ball around. Clausen mentally has "it" from what I've read. He's passionate about the game and enjoys studying film. Imo, players like him (w/o prototype stud build) take a little while to come into their own but once they do, he can be surgical.

That's assuming he's learned how to step up in the pocket and get the ball up over the pass rush.

I think Moore has a much better shot than many give him credit for. While he might have been prepped as the starter, Matt had the same porous oline and deficiencies Clausen had to deal with... PLUS a highly touted rookie QB waiting to take his job.

Give them the tools to succeed and I'm confident they can do it. Fans have to accept that a franchise QB isn't this secret decoder ring at the bottom of the cereal box. They don't just appear, and believing in somebody for their physical talents alone is just as ridiculous as writing off somebody for not having the ideal stature.

[Cyberjag]

Basically here's what this says:

1. Moore would beat out Clausen for the starting job.

2. This franchise is going to let the better QB option walk out the door, we'd rather stick with the pootier option than pay someone $4mil a year

3. Even though he's the best QB on the roster, we're likely to keep Pike, who was a throwaway pick, and Clausen, the worst starter in the NFL, because that makes more sense.

Is that what you're trying to say? I'm confused by your logic?

That's not what I mean to say, but I see where you can get that. Basically, I think Clausen is going to arrive at Training Camp in way, way, way better shape than last year. That's in both mental and physical terms. So take that assumption as my starting point for all this.

Clausen will therefore be way better than 2010 Moore. But if Clausen's problems were not just rookie-related, then it's not fair to say Moore's were all about pressure. If he's 2009 Moore, then there's a decent chance he wins the job, and at least it will be a competition.

But I also think he may not get the chance, for the reasons I stated. And that's just a dollars and cents guess, the only way I see them holding on to him is if either money isn't an issue (like in 2010--no cap), or if the believe he may be good enough to be the starter. He's a UFA, and Rivera doesn't have a history with him. Clausen and Pike are under contract.

In any competition, a guy who could conceivably be starting for the next five years, and who could be seen as potentially getting better, will get the nod over a guy of equal talent who is at the end of his career. Unless you're looking at a "This is it" type of season where veteran leadership takes on increased importance, then that's what I think.

They've repeatedly said they would address the QB position and bring in competition. I'm taking them at their word.

So, if they bring in a Volek, who's 34 years old, and he plays just as well as Clausen, Clausen is the starter. And I think Clausen will improve enough to do that.

If they bring in Moore and he plays like he did in late 2009, OR if they go get a promising fourth or fifth year QB, then the competition will be way more interesting. I do believe Clausen will make it a good competition though. For what it's worth, Moore has always stunk in Training Camp. That could be coaching though.

I'm probably still as clear as mud, but I hope you have a better idea where I'm coming from.

[TheRealDeal]

He's a UFA, and Rivera doesn't have a history with him. Clausen and Pike are under contract.

He's a RFA and Moore has a lot of connections to Rivera and his staff, if not history.

Moore performed well last year at training camp and reports were that Clausen looked terrible. Can he make up that much ground in one year in a new offense? Without any hype, without the backing of former coaches, without the head start of a similar offense, can he impress enough to overcome his physical limitations to win the job over 1, 2 or 3 guys that are likely going to be more physically gifted than him?

I agree with you that if they just bring in Volek and keep Pike he should win the spot, but what does that say? Does that say we are really committed to winning? Does that say we want Luck next year? If they don't bring in a younger guy with ability who could win the job and keep it for 7 + years, they are setting themselves up for failure and this fan base up for a riot.