I'm starting 2 hope Jimmy can prove people wrong.

[koolkatluke]

Tell me. Exactly how, in any college stat, awards, or anything he did last year, is Clausen better in any tangible football category than Newton?

This is irony in it's purest form.

Besides, this isn't a pro-Newton thread. It's a defending Clausen thread. The guy fuging sucks and it shows. Half the time he's throwing the damn ball into the stands, the other half he's not even clearing the reach of D-Linemen.

Oh... I'm sorry.... he did manage to make a couple short sideline throws on broken coverage. I'd bet he was aiming for a Coach tho.

I was going 2 ask you what did Cam do in college that showed he can run a pro offense but I though about it and don't care what you think. You make french fries. When I want 2 know about fresh cut fries then your the man I'll come 2. When i want 2 know about player I'll go 2 a person who gets paid 2 know about players.

[CatMan72]

What if the Cowboys gave up on Aikman after his rookie season?

[koolkatluke]

I think the Raiders,Cards,Browns,Falcons, and the 49ers would disagree. Sometimes if you have a round peg you will never make it into the square hole no matter how much time you spend.

The Colts, Cowboys, Falcons, and Bucs would disagree with you. Their are example either way. All I'm saying is I hope he improves it would help this team the most if Jimmy can prove 2 be a Franchise QB. Why people still want 2 dog this Idea i don't know?

[Snake]

In hindsight, yes... but we're not there yet.

Just saying that he was a 2nd round pick and looking in other areas is not a bad idea. Trying to make a leaky ship sea worthy can happen but its best to have a back up plan.

[CRA]

So the situation he was put in had nothing 2 do with it right?????

situation was not as bad as people claim. Moore (who isn't very good) made plenty of plays in the passing game w/ a very short window. He just couldn't get eliminate the horrifically boneheaded plays and missed throws (those were on Moore for the most part). The run game eventually came around.......for Jimmy unlike duing Moore's brief window. Fox is Fox....lameduck or not. Jimmy made everyone look worse.....those on offense and defense. Jimmy couldn't do basics of this offense. He wouldn't throw to open guys, he killed plays before they got started, and the offense wouldn't move.....and that put a defense that played well despite some obvious weaknesses in a situation they couldn't succeed.

Jimmy played the game exactly how he did in college......that is what he does. That ain't the people around him causing that.

[Snake]

The Colts, Cowboys, Falcons, and Bucs would disagree with you. Their are example either way. All I'm saying is I hope he improves it would help this team the most if Jimmy can prove 2 be a Franchise QB. Why people still want 2 dog this Idea i don't know?

Um Vick was a major fail in ATL. When he left they were in a bind till Matty Ice. He was successful the first year. The bucs were in trouble because they never drafted a solid QB either till Freeman. Freeman showed poise his first year and I remember that because they almost beat us! The Colts picked Manning in the draft and he showed major promise his first year behind what was one of the worst Olines in the NFL. The Cowboys have struggled for a long while now and to call Romo a good QB is kind of a stretch and prob in hindsight they will regret spending as much time as they did with him. Also so it want be said again McNabb did take a while for the lights to come on as well but he also showed promise and had some of the best offensive coaches a QB could ask for.

[koolkatluke]

I think the Raiders,Cards,Browns,Falcons, and the 49ers would disagree. Sometimes if you have a round peg you will never make it into the square hole no matter how much time you spend.

2nd round draft picks since 2002

DeShaun Foster

Bruce Nelson

Keary Colbert

Eric Shelton

Richard Marshall

Dwayne Jarrett

Everette Brown

Jimmy Clausen

DeShaun Foster (Hate all you want but without Foster we don't make it 2 the superbowl or NFCC 2 years later).

Bruce Nelson bust

Keary Colbert bust

Eric Shelton Bust

Richard Marshall Has been a solid CB for us for a few years now.

Dwayne Jarrett Bust

Everette Brown Give Brown 1 more year 2 bulk up plus he miss some of the year with a injury but still had 4 sacks. J anderson for ATL was a 1st round pick and doesn't have Brown #

Jimmy Clausen 1 year really ???

[koolkatluke]

Um Vick was a major fail in ATL. When he left they were in a bind till Matty Ice. He was successful the first year. The bucs were in trouble because they never drafted a solid QB either till Freeman. Freeman showed poise his first year and I remember that because they almost beat us! The Colts picked Manning in the draft and he showed major promise his first year behind what was one of the worst Olines in the NFL. The Cowboys have struggled for a long while now and to call Romo a good QB is kind of a stretch and prob in hindsight they will regret spending as much time as they did with him. Also so it want be said again McNabb did take a while for the lights to come on as well but he also showed promise and had some of the best offensive coaches a QB could ask for.

Not talking about vick you do know that Brett Farve was drafted by the Falcons. Freeman also had a 5 int game but yes let's give up on Jimmy.:hurray:

[CRA]

Giving up on a QB after his rookie season, regardless of the circumstances, is foolish.

There is no argument to justify giving up on a QB after his rookie season.

Foolish is sticking w/ a mid 2nd rounder as your starting QB for a few seasons and not looking for better options when he played as poorly as Clausen did.

Sticking Clausen (a mid 2nd rounder) on the bench after a horrific rookie year and letting him learn and try to fix his flawed game isn't giving up on him as a QB. It is giving him a chance to be a QB in the future and giving your current team a chance to grow and improve.

[Snake]

situation was not as bad as people claim. Moore (who isn't very good) made plenty of plays in the passing game w/ a very short window. He just couldn't get eliminate the horrifically boneheaded plays and missed throws (those were on Moore for the most part). The run game eventually came around.......for Jimmy unlike duing Moore's brief window. Fox is Fox....lameduck or not. Jimmy made everyone look worse.....those on offense and defense. Jimmy couldn't do basics of this offense. He wouldn't throw to open guys, he killed plays before they got started, and the offense wouldn't move.....and that put a defense that played well despite some obvious weaknesses in a situation they couldn't succeed.

Jimmy played the game exactly how he did in college......that is what he does. That ain't the people around him causing that.

All true and when Moore was in the team was better. Hell when Brain St. Peire was in the team was better and he had no clue what our offensive system was. Jimmy had been in our system for his whole college carrier and had time to learn our playbook in OTA,Pre-season and before Moore got hurt. The fact is he dose not have skill set to be a vertical passer in the NFL. No matter how much time you wast on him he will not be good at it.

[CRA]

The Colts, Cowboys, Falcons, and Bucs would disagree with you. Their are example either way. All I'm saying is I hope he improves it would help this team the most if Jimmy can prove 2 be a Franchise QB. Why people still want 2 dog this Idea i don't know?

How are those teams examples of supporting sticking w/ a rookie who played as poorly as Clausen?? None of them had a QB that played and showed the lack of growth and lack of potential as Clausen. Those are teams who started rookies who showed legit promise and gave their teams a reason to stick with them.

[CRA]

All true and when Moore was in the team was better. Hell when Brain St. Peire was in the team was better and he had no clue what our offensive system was. Jimmy had been in our system for his whole college carrier and had time to learn our playbook in OTA,Pre-season and before Moore got hurt. The fact is he dose not have skill set to be a vertical passer in the NFL. No matter how much time you wast on him he will not be good at it.

exactly. Neither Clausen nor Pike are those type QBs. That is why they looked so lost in Fox's offense. Chud will require the same. I understood Carolina taking them in the draft as Fox was on his way out and the future was an unknown (and it could give the new HC some toys)y.....but the opted to stay w/ the vertical game w/ the new hire. Clausen and Pike simply don't fit that......no matter how much people want them to be that, they just aren't those type QBs.

Clausen was a mid 2nd rounder and Pike was a 6th....those aren't the kind of investments you waste seasons on trying to turn them into players they simply aren't.

[koolkatluke]

situation was not as bad as people claim. Moore (who isn't very good) made plenty of plays in the passing game w/ a very short window. He just couldn't get eliminate the horrifically boneheaded plays and missed throws (those were on Moore for the most part). The run game eventually came around.......for Jimmy unlike duing Moore's brief window. Fox is Fox....lameduck or not. Jimmy made everyone look worse.....those on offense and defense. Jimmy couldn't do basics of this offense. He wouldn't throw to open guys, he killed plays before they got started, and the offense wouldn't move.....and that put a defense that played well despite some obvious weaknesses in a situation they couldn't succeed.

Jimmy played the game exactly how he did in college......that is what he does. That ain't the people around him causing that.

Yeah because it's good too have a OC who knows nothing about the passing game and a HC who had 1 foot ou the door. Anybody likes 2 play in that situation. Also a QB coach who has a knack for f'ing up QB that also a great thing 2 have your rookie year. Not too mention Bernacrap and Gray williams blocking for you and rookie wr's wow he should have dominated. Your right CRA lets bring everybody back and try again.:hurray:

[blackcatgrowl]

I think the Raiders,Cards,Browns,Falcons, and the 49ers would disagree. Sometimes if you have a round peg you will never make it into the square hole no matter how much time you spend.

2nd round draft picks since 2002

DeShaun Foster

Bruce Nelson

Keary Colbert

Eric Shelton

Richard Marshall

Dwayne Jarrett

Everette Brown

Jimmy Clausen

Holy crap, that's a long list of disappointment.