Matt Maiocco has us taking Newton # 1 overall

[mav1234]

how is volek serious competition? and what makes anyone think that volek would be happy competing for a job? dude has run away from that at every opportunity.

He's a veteran stopgap, don't get me wrong, but he has all the things you would want in such a player... if you wanted such a player, anyway... hes worked in our system, been in the league some time, tutored a young quarterback in the past or at least been there working beside him... and to be honest I kind of expect the Panthers to go after a guy like Volek, no matter what else they do in terms of draft or FA.

As to him running from competition "at every chance," he's only been on two teams so I think that is a bit extreme. I understand why you feel that way about Tennessee but I think that situation was a bit more complex. Still not excited about him but he may be exactly what our FO wants while they find and/or develop their franchise guy.

On the other hand, he may just prefer to stay in San Diego as a backup. There was an article that implied that he was being tugged in different directions, since he felt he could start some place and wanted that chance, but he also loved being in San Diego.

btw, I don't think signing Volek/another veteran FA means we dont draft a QB, or drafting a QB means we don't sign Volek/another veteran FA.

[rayzor]

he doesn't have all the things, though. he doesn't have youth or the potential to be the long term answer. he doesn't have a real competitive spirit or a winning attitude and record. he doesn't have much experience (only started 10 games) and barely has a better record than clausen. been there with a young QB doesn't mean tutoring. he's been on a team and thats about all you can say about him.

what makes anyone think that the same team that just unloaded all of their older vets beacuse the owner wanted to get the young guys on the field and experienced will go out and bring in an old vet (he'd be 35 by training camp) to start ahead of youth? it just doesn't make sense. if all he's going to do is stand on the sidelines and hold a clipboard, why would he ever want to leave san diego? i sure wouldn't. they want to keep him out here. the only way he would come out here was if they didn't want him anymore and/or he was assured the starting gig, which wouldn't be in keeping with trying to bring in competition.

nothing i have seen from the panthers the past couple years is shouting "guy like volek". in fact it flies in the face of what they have been working for....a young team growing together. only thing he has going for him is familiarity with chud's offense. that isn't enough.

also, i'm not at all in favor of a veteran stop gap solution. it doesn't help get this team stronger. the team needs to grow with a young QB under center.

[mav1234]

Why would you want youth in a veteran stopgap? that makes no sense. As I said, if they want a veteran stopgap, kinda like Peete was years ago, Volek could be that guy. He has starting experience, albeit limited, he has been around the league, and he has worked in the offense we want to implement. The coaches could feel that it would be of greater benefit to let the young guys sit behind a veteran stopgap for a year or two, rather than throwing them out there. Hard to say for sure but I thought some posters here said Rivera or Chud referenced Rivers' handling in some way, but I can't recall.

You are right this team worked towards building through youth. However, as last year showed, you can't really keep throwing youth at the QB position at every opportunity.

[rayzor]

you wouldn't want a veteran stop gap. i dont want one anyway. i don't think thats what the team s looking for nor would it help they QB situation here, esp. long term.

if we get a vet in here, i would rather it be someone younger who could have a future as a franchise QB.

my choices?

gradkowski

tarvaris jackson

grossman

thigpen

moore

alex smith

derek anderson

volek has no more upside than any of these guys and is no more proven. he has nothing more to offer than these guys and is no more talented. any vets brought in should only be potential franchise guys, unless they are going to be on the sidelines holding a clipboard and then i would only want guys who have actual recent (within the past couple years) playing experience.

However, as last year showed, you can't really keep throwing youth at the QB position at every opportunity.

what last year showed was you can't throw a rookie QB into a situation where the lame duck coaching staff has never been able or willing to develop a QB and in an offense that is totally unwilling to adjust it's gameplan to help the QB succeed.

[mav1234]

the difference is, if you are hurney and you still believe in clausen, which he does, I think you bring in someone like Moore and someone like Volek and you have a 3 way competition and let it shake itself out.

you go this route specifically expecting the older vet to win in the short term but in the next couple seasons to give way to either your younger FA or Clausen. in fact, it is possible your younger FA even wins out, and that's okay too. but you bring in the older, seasoned veteran that you feel you can trust because he's been around forever or whatever. and btw on Volek specifically, he may not have won a ton of games in Tenn. but he did look pretty good at times.

I don't think that you go into next season armed with just Volek and Clausen or anything like that. I agree you want to bring in a younger FA too, if you don't draft one anyway.

[rayzor]

It wouldn't have mattered how many quarterbacks Gruden picked or didn't pick. His issue was that he was a jerk to them, was constantly critical and never inspired confidence. Seemed all of them disliked him. He changed quarterbacks like he did his socks. In fact, Jake Plummer chose to retire instead of play for him.

It isn't how many QBs you have but what you do with the ones you have.

agreed, but i would add to that last sentence, "...and the guys you have coaching them."

pretty well regarded, including by mr. scot, that gruden was a coach that didn't handle his players very well and wasn't well liked.

[rayzor]

the difference is, if you are hurney and you still believe in clausen, which he does, I think you bring in someone like Moore and someone like Volek and you have a 3 way competition and let it shake itself out.

you go this route specifically expecting the older vet to win in the short term but in the next couple seasons to give way to either your younger FA or Clausen. in fact, it is possible your younger FA even wins out, and that's okay too. but you bring in the older, seasoned veteran that you feel you can trust because he's been around forever or whatever. and btw on Volek specifically, he may not have won a ton of games in Tenn. but he did look pretty good at times.

I don't think that you go into next season armed with just Volek and Clausen or anything like that. I agree you want to bring in a younger FA too, if you don't draft one anyway.

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.

[Snake]

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.

[mav1234]

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.

Not all franchise QBs played their first year, yet the team didn't decide since they hadn't seen them play they needed to go out and keep blowing draft picks on QBs. So there must be some way that teams use to decide if a player is developing for the future outside of playing them...

Obviously if you sign a young FA or draft a QB you expect them to be able to grow into the starter, but you need to have a secondary plan in case THIS YEAR they are unable to do what you want.

The problem with your logic is that no matter how you handle your future franchise quaterback's first few years, it's a risk and you may need to move on to another prospect. Whether you play them two years or they can't win their job in the first two years, if they haven't done poo in their third year you HAVE to consider moving on either way.

What you seem to be missing is the idea of competition in camp. The "Volek Figure" is there effectively as a fallback; if the others can't improve you know by his time in the league (and in our coaches cases working with him in the past) what he should be capable of providing. Competition is there to elevate all of those participating. It may just be your youngest guy comes to the top, perhaps not in his first year but perhaps in his second or third; but it may be you need to bring in new competition at the position.

[rayzor]

Not all franchise QBs played their first year, yet the team didn't decide since they hadn't seen them play they needed to go out and keep blowing draft picks on QBs. So there must be some way that teams use to decide if a player is developing for the future outside of playing them...

most QBs, esp. recently, have been guys that get started in their first year. it's done because thats the best way. only way to really find out if he is ready to start is by letting him start. there is no other way.

Obviously if you sign a young FA or draft a QB you expect them to be able to grow into the starter, but you need to have a secondary plan in case THIS YEAR they are unable to do what you want.

why wouldn't the secondary plan be another young QB who, although they might be a long shot, still has the potential to be the long term guy?

The problem with your logic is that no matter how you handle your future franchise quaterback's first few years, it's a risk and you may need to move on to another prospect. Whether you play them two years or they can't win their job in the first two years, if they haven't done poo in their third year you HAVE to consider moving on either way.

not a fail free plan for sure, but still better and a much quicker way of finding your franchise QB than the stop gap way.

What you seem to be missing is the idea of competition in camp. The "Volek Figure" is there effectively as a fallback; if the others can't improve you know by his time in the league (and in our coaches cases working with him in the past) what he should be capable of providing. Competition is there to elevate all of those participating. It may just be your youngest guy comes to the top, perhaps not in his first year but perhaps in his second or third; but it may be you need to bring in new competition at the position.

what you see as a fallback is what i see as a crutch.

competition should be for the long term job.... not just this year. you get the team no closer to finding the long term answer than you were before by going after an old guy.

going after an old guy is a path that john fox would have taken because he didn't trust the youth. we should have kept him around if we were going to address the QB situation the same way.

it's time to start thinking outside the fox shaped box and start getting aggressive about finding the franchise QB.

[kanniiee]

I'd be okay with this. I'd be okay with Newton, Fairley, or Green with our first pick

Agreed