Matt Maiocco has us taking Newton # 1 overall

[The Saltman]

Sometimes. You have to understand a little beyond the stats though.

If you went purely by stats, you'd have thought Colt Brennan and Timmy Chang were among the best QBs in the country.

except they didnt play against SEC opponents and win a national championship. Just saying

[TheRealDeal]

except they didnt play against SEC opponents and win a national championship. Just saying

Chris Leak

[The Saltman]

Chris Leak

did leak have comparable stats to newton?

[TheRealDeal]

did leak have comparable stats to newton?

He was a passing QB, not a runner. And his SEC was way more competitive.

He was also a three year starter and put up good numbers. 29 & 12, 20 & 6, 23 & 13.

[Mr. Scot]

except they didnt play against SEC opponents and win a national championship. Just saying

Trust me. You don't want to invoke "National Championship Winner" in your argument for a QB anymore than you want to invoke "Heisman Trophy".

Look back at the names of previous winners and you'll see why.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Vick isn't a running QB. He WAS a running QB that turned into a pocket passer who has the option to run when he feels it's necessary. Vick now and Vick of the past are like night and day. Now it seems the only time he runs is when everyone is covered and the pocket starts breaking down forcing him to scramble.

Vick doesn't run any less than he did when he was at Atlanta. In fact he was on pace for more attempts last season than any other year that he played. The only difference between Vick in 2006 and Vick in 2010 is that he was actually coached in Philadelphia. Nobody taught Vick how to actually be a QB in Atlanta because all of their coaches were retards who thought what Vick was doing was good enough.

And you can make the argument that it's their system, since McNabb went to Washington and sucked. But I can also point out that Kolb must REALLY suck then, because he didn't look too hot when he got a shot last year. Also, McNabb is 35 and the Redskins blow.

also, with that logic Matt Moore would have had a pro bowl season if you projected his 2009 numbers over the course of a full season. I don't know if you noticed, but defenses started figuring Vick out towards the end of the season and he wasn't NEAR as successful and those numbers would have fell off significantly.

Yeah because those scenarios are exactly the same. Vick played 3/4ths of a season, and was quarterbacking a playoff team, while Moore played during garbage time for 5 games when we were already long eliminated from playoff contention.

Also, outside of being completely different scenarios, Extrapolating 16 games from 12 is far less shaky than extrapolating 16 games from 5.

And no, I didn't notice that, because Vick's stats during the first half of the season and the second half were almost unchanged. The first 6 games he played, he threw for 1300 yards and 11 TDs. The last 6 games he threw from 1600 yards and 10 TDs. The only major difference was he threw 6 interceptions during the last 6 games. Even if he played all 16 games and threw 16 interceptions, that's still fewer than Brees and Manning did last year.

You can also make the argument that Vick's stats should actually IMPROVE next year, because he was out of football for two years, and really didn't get any gametime experience in 2009.

[The Saltman]

im just saying as in a comparison to people like colt brennan and all....whatever we arent going to draft him so im not sure why u guys come in here to bash the guy anyway.

[TheRealDeal]

But But Ken Dorsey

[MadHatter]

To me the "we don't need oline" statement is very dangerous. We have no long term replacements for 3 of the 5 positions. Gross is old and will need a replacement in a couple years. Wharton is getting up there and has been somewhat injury prone his whole career, and we still don't have a true RG.

All of our backups are serviceable but I don't see any as starting material. If you stockpile talent now it will be ready and available when needed. We don't need a situation like we have at QB on the oline.

I just meant that we are fine at starters. We need to bring in quality depth.

I WISH there were an OLineman worthy of the #1 pick. They are the safest and most immediate impact of any position.

[SmootsDaddy89]

You really want to ask our quarterback coach to try to train up three young prospects in a few weeks worth of camp? Two is hard enough.

We've got new coaches and a new system. Even with similarities to the old one, there'll be a lot to learn, and you simply can't give equal reps to four guys in camp and expect much of a result.

The best thing they can do is to sign a couple vets that have familiarity. That decreases the amount of teaching time necessary and gives you a couple of "teaching assistants" for the young guys we have.

Ideally it should be Clausen, Rookie, and a vet who helps with the teaching. But yes, I'd much rather have us coaching two inexperienced players than sit around and twiddle our thumbs while we hope that Clausen develops.

[TheRealDeal]

im just saying as in a comparison to people like colt brennan and all....whatever we arent going to draft him so im not sure why u guys come in here to bash the guy anyway.

I know it just shows that stats and "winning" are meaningless when trying to forecast NFL success of college QBs. People use those arguments to try and hide the issues he has that truly need to be addressed.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Posting this on the new page because it needs to be read.

Vick isn't a running QB. He WAS a running QB that turned into a pocket passer who has the option to run when he feels it's necessary. Vick now and Vick of the past are like night and day. Now it seems the only time he runs is when everyone is covered and the pocket starts breaking down forcing him to scramble.

Vick doesn't run any less than he did when he was at Atlanta. In fact he was on pace for more attempts last season than any other year that he played. The only difference between Vick in 2006 and Vick in 2010 is that he was actually coached in Philadelphia. Nobody taught Vick how to actually be a QB in Atlanta because all of their coaches were retards who thought what Vick was doing was good enough.

And you can make the argument that it's their system, since McNabb went to Washington and sucked. But I can also point out that Kolb must REALLY suck then, because he didn't look too hot when he got a shot last year. Also, McNabb is 35 and the Redskins blow.

also, with that logic Matt Moore would have had a pro bowl season if you projected his 2009 numbers over the course of a full season. I don't know if you noticed, but defenses started figuring Vick out towards the end of the season and he wasn't NEAR as successful and those numbers would have fell off significantly.

Yeah because those scenarios are exactly the same. Vick played 3/4ths of a season, and was quarterbacking a playoff team, while Moore played during garbage time for 5 games when we were already long eliminated from playoff contention.

Also, outside of being completely different scenarios, Extrapolating 16 games from 12 is far less shaky than extrapolating 16 games from 5.

And no, I didn't notice that, because Vick's stats during the first half of the season and the second half were almost unchanged. The first 6 games he played, he threw for 1300 yards and 11 TDs. The last 6 games he threw from 1600 yards and 10 TDs. The only major difference was he threw 6 interceptions during the last 6 games. Even if he played all 16 games and threw 16 interceptions, that's still fewer than Brees and Manning did last year.

You can also make the argument that Vick's stats should actually IMPROVE next year, because he was out of football for two years, and really didn't get any gametime experience in 2009.

[TheRealDeal]

tl;dr

[Mr. Scot]

Ideally it should be Clausen, Rookie, and a vet who helps with the teaching. But yes, I'd much rather have us coaching two inexperienced players than sit around and twiddle our thumbs while we hope that Clausen develops.

If they have to bring another rookie up to speed and help him transition to the pro game, that'll take time. There'll already be plenty of time devoted to coaching up Clausen. Throw in yet another youngster and in real world time, you're asking too much. If you had a guy like Luck, it'd be worth that risk, but Luck's not coming.

I've said repeatedly what I want to see in camp is Clausen, Pike, an older vet and a mid-level vet (could be Moore). Keep the best three out of that bunch for the season.