Fuck drafting to build we need to win NAO!

[frash.exe]

Green Bay had the luxury to draft Rodgers in the first round and sit him because they had Brett favre as the starter. Unfortunately we don't. We need a free agent who can be a starter while we work with the young guys to get them ready to take over. Arizona's mistake was not having someone ready when Warner retired. Whether it is Clausen or someone else we groom as the future starter, we need an upgrade if we don't want to struggle for a year or two. Somehow I don't think Rivera is going to take the chance that we struggle again on offense this year. Richardson seemed emphatic that fixing this offense was his top priority.

funny you should say that because we had that same luxury at the time, (Also in 2008 w/ Flacco to an extent) yet people would argue till the cows come home (and then argue with them) that QB wasn't a need at the time

[frash.exe]

My point is the only way to get this offense back on track is to bring in some serious young competition (which is making me tend more and more to drafting a QB first overall, hopefully one of the top QBs really show our scouts they're worth the investment) to compete with Clausen and have them grow in the offense

it's not a pretty solution because everybody's more comfortable with the words "X-year vet" attached, but there is just as much hope if not more than drafting a guy that it will eventually work out

[nagai]

Yeah RB, I was a bit worried when I read the title, but once again your common sense has come through .

To say that the Packers and Steelers ever built a team with that win now mentality is rediculous. Have none of you watched them draft in the last 5 years? They are BPA teams. If you had to choose 2 teams to be the cover boys for the BPA strategy, they would probably be it (the Titans should be there too, but you get my point). Yet people are overlooking their generic strategy and only looking at details in isolation. If anything, the Packers and Steelers should be a stamp of approval towards the BPA strategy and having some foresight.

[KDawg004]

A couple reasons why nobody should buy this retarded logic

1. This isn't Major League Baseball. You don't just plug every hole you have in one year and win a championship, and even then, you need a contending team to start with, not a 2-14 league doormat. That's not the way the NFL works. Case in point. In 2007 the Pats went buck wild in free agency after going to the AFC Championship with Quintus Pfuffnick at WR. They traded for Welker, picked up Stallworth, they signed Adalius Thomas, and they went BPA with Meriweather at 24 in the first round. It was the Patriots on a FA shopping spree, so basically it was a weeks long media orgy. Anyway, a year later it got them further by merely one game and they still couldn't outscore a less talented Giants offense. Even their AFC Championship game they couldn't even dominate a Chargers team with Rivers sporting a freshly torn ACL and LT getting taken out early.

2. Expanding on no.1's point, a lot of it has to do with there being 22 different starters on the field on just offense and defense. That is a lot of spots compared to the MLB (8 batters in NL, 9 in AL (8 batters including DH) + a very good overall rotation of 3-4 unique pitchers) and much more compared to the NBA (5 starters + 3-4 good bench players). ...nobody watches hockey. Plus raw talent is much less emphasized in the NFL due to schemes and strategy. The NFL is more like a chess game than any other sport. A coach that can think 3-4 plays ahead of his opponent is more invaluable than the greatest most talented defensive line you can think of. Just ask the 2010 Giants. All they've done since 2007 is stack their defensive line and have nothing more to show for it.

3. It leads to people thinking you can get to a championship game with Billy Volek starting at QB. Unless you run a WCO your offense is only going to run right with consistency at QB. Stop gaps only get you to playoff berths at best and then right back to square one when they retire because they were already thinking about it when you signed them. The best way we can help this offense is by getting weapons or a better young QB.

So enough with this stupid poo about trading for Carson Palmer so he can get another concussion and miss 12 games and use every single other resource we have to fix the interior line when A. It's not as extremely bad to begin with, B. They're going to have much more blitzing help next year, and C. We've got a bigger mess to fix that's called "the passing game".

Im sorry but what a horrible example. Baseball, really? Do you know anything about baseball? Baseball is one of the hardest sports to build through the draft. It typically takes a prospect 2-4 years to climb the ranks and make the major league club. A good player at that. Most of them don't amount to anything. Football can have multiple contributors in the draft from special teams through starters.

I agree that we need some veterans but to imply that the we shouldn't stock up on draft picks because this isn't the MLB is silly. You can get alot of instant talent and soon to be contributors for cheap through the draft.

[panthers55]

I dont know why things are being portrayed as having to be one extreme or the other. We will surely build through the draft and Rivera was clear that we will bring in competition at the quarterback position. My contention is we can do both, bring in a draft pick and pick up someone in free agency. That way you can win now with the vet and build for the future. That way you don't put all your eggs in one basket. We can improve the team in the immediate and down the road.

[rayzor]

My point is the only way to get this offense back on track is to bring in some serious young competition (which is making me tend more and more to drafting a QB first overall, hopefully one of the top QBs really show our scouts they're worth the investment) to compete with Clausen and have them grow in the offense

it's not a pretty solution because everybody's more comfortable with the words "X-year vet" attached, but there is just as much hope if not more than drafting a guy that it will eventually work out

i'm all for the young competition and i would much rather have a starter for us be a younger guy who is competing for the long term job than let some old vet who won't be around longer than a year or two have it. let the QB work with the team and let him take the job over. we don't have anyone entrenched in the job so we should be thinking long term and get the potential long term solution on the field.

i just don't think we are going to find that guy in the draft, though. i have no confidence in this draft class being able to be the QB we want for the job and i have a big fear that we would be reaching just for the sake of competition if we did take one early. i really don't want us to do that.

the only one that i would really feel good about would be newton and that has to do with his ceiling. gabbert and the rest of the QBs in this draft have a very low ceiling and really aren't much better choices than clausen.

[frash.exe]

i just don't think we are going to find that guy in the draft, though. i have no confidence in this draft class being able to be the QB we want for the job and i have a big fear that we would be reaching just for the sake of competition if we did take one early. i really don't want us to do that.

the only one that i would really feel good about would be newton and that has to do with his ceiling. gabbert and the rest of the QBs in this draft have a very low ceiling and really aren't much better choices than clausen.

it could be true, but i think those two are the only ones that have the potential to be a starting QB. yea they both play in a spread but so did Bradford, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and I know I'm forgetting a whole lot of other people. A lot of it will depend on if they show they can scan and go through progressions. I know Gabbert usually reads one side of the field but he can be trained not to, and I know he's capable, and so is Newton. I'm not 100% yet that we should do it but it's either that or draft AJ Green and make Clausen's life easier because you can throw it in his zip code and he'll come up with the catch. Footballoutsiders said we had like the worst receivers

as far as defensive line goes, this draft is pretty deep at that position, and we might have to look into getting a linebacker somewhere in the middle rounds because i don't know how the FO is going to retain Davis, CJ, Kalil, and DeAngelo

[rayzor]

it could be true, but i think those two are the only ones that have the potential to be a starting QB. yea they both play in a spread but so did Bradford, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and I know I'm forgetting a whole lot of other people. A lot of it will depend on if they show they can scan and go through progressions. I know Gabbert usually reads one side of the field but he can be trained not to, and I know he's capable, and so is Newton. I'm not 100% yet that we should do it but it's either that or draft AJ Green and make Clausen's life easier because you can throw it in his zip code and he'll come up with the catch. Footballoutsiders said we had like the worst receivers

as far as defensive line goes, this draft is pretty deep at that position, and we might have to look into getting a linebacker somewhere in the middle rounds because i don't know how the FO is going to retain Davis, CJ, Kalil, and DeAngelo

from watching gabbert i would say he's got no more potential than clausen and is just as much or more of a project than clausen. i'd just as soon stick with clausen and try to develop him as waste a pick on gabbert. playing in a spread doesn't bother me as much as other people. as long as i feel like they can handle pressure in the pocket and not panic/make stupid mistakes they'll be fine. i just don't get that with gabbert and it will only get worse in the pros.

i agree with getting the QB more help. i don't have the confidence in our WR corps that others do. i don't see smith being a long term answer and lafell and gettis are one year wonders until they can prove otherwise. i just can't colbert's rookie year vs. all his other years out of my mind. edwards isn't even worth discussion at this point. green's talent is undeniable. i would want to get a real TE in here as well. i have the same confidence in our current TEs as i do in our current WRs in being able to live up to rivera/chud's expectations for an all around stud TE.

having said that and believing that we should be addressing the offense first, i wouldn't throw stuff at the TV if we drafted fairley or peterson first. still think that we can address DT well enough in FA to help out our pass rush significantly.

i'm not worried about us signing all the guys you listed, btw. we have tons of cap room to handle that, sign draft picks, and be active in trades/FA. it might take hurney getting creative in structuring contracts, but the money will be there.

[Snake]

I think people that have Win this year mentality are

A. Dont understand how bad Clausen looked last year. Yes other factors were in play but there is a reason he dropped to the second round.

B. Dont like anyone in this QB class this year. There mentality is "ehh all teh QBs suk this year so lets jus get a FA".

[bleys]

if QB cannot be answered this year.. it's either Peterson or Green.. Peterson is more of a team need, but Rivera is the man with a plan. There's nothing to say Marshall and Gamble won't play bump and run more often (reasonable to think Marshall is brought back) , grab some FA DT's, and draft Green..

once we have a QB, our offense is set.. and our defense can be coached up through the rest of the draft picks 3-7 rounds.. and then next year as well..

a lot of people can't fit their mind around it, and some have a valid point to say otherwise.. but with all things considered, Green isn't a far fetched idea by ANY means..

[rayzor]

i'm not in win now mentality. i have very little faith in clausen being able to turn around, but have even less confidence in the QBs in this draft (again, aside from newton) doing any better.

i do want us to go out and get a FA, but not an old one like so many have been pining for. i want us to get a couple younger FAs to compete for the full time, long term job. i'm not interested in quick fixes over trying to find long term solutions. starting an old vet who will only be here for a year or two won't really do much good in developing our players. i would much rather get the guy who this staff feels can be the long term starter in the game and get him acclimated to it, but also work to give him the best chance to succeed in game planning and play calling. make sure the OL is healthy and has quality depth. make sure we have all of our RBs returning and healthy. also, get the QB as many quality targets as possible to help him out, adding another WR and finding our antonio gates. it won't/shouldn't be that hard to do.

[bleys]

for those talking about win now mentalities, understand finding a QB will be the overall factor involved in this..

it could very well take 2-3 years for us to find that QB.. it could take another year or 2 after that.. within that time, it is smart to fill your roster as needed through the draft and FA so that when we find that QB and he is ready to play at an NFL level, the pieces are in place..

we can draft Gabbert, Newton, Locker, and whoever else and nothing guarantees any of them will be that guy.. people can project, but that means very little.. QBs are projected upon year in and year out, and year in and year out, they fail...

the scouting department and coaching staff will have to be trusted to do this.. until then, it's pretty much a "wait and see" approach..

enjoy the new coaching staff.. it's a new day in Pantherland..

[mountainpantherfan]

This is where a lot of teams get themselves into trouble, trying to win a championship by adding just one player here or there because of some type of need. It never works.

Fans need to take the viewpoint right now that this team is in need of 22 new starters in order to win a championship. It might not take an entirely new roster, but its close because this team isn't winning a championship within the next 3-4 years. Having that mindset is just a better way of looking at the situation instead of having unrealistic expectations.

[bleys]

This is where a lot of teams get themselves into trouble, trying to win a championship by adding just one player here or there because of some type of need. It never works.

Fans need to take the viewpoint right now that this team is in need of 22 new starters in order to win a championship. It might not take an entirely new roster, but its close because this team isn't winning a championship within the next 3-4 years. Having that mindset is just a better way of looking at the situation instead of having unrealistic expectations.

for the sake of saying "this is the best way to keep your expectations low", then I'll agree.. but one successful offseason could put us back into the playoffs easily..

now obviously, if it takes us 2-4 years to find our next QB, that will be our biggest delay..

this is just a scenario.. a very possible one though.. we could bring in Cofield, bring in a lower tier DT, draft one in the 3rd. Sign Marshall. And find a way to bring in Orton.

I feel very confident in saying Rivera can get the most out of Gamble and Marshall. they are very physical and can play bump and run rather well. Munnerlyn is a solid nickel..

And if we somehow pulled an Orton out of our ass.. we have solid QB play who protects the ball well and has proven to be a solid distributor of the ball.. no, he's not a Tom Brady. just in case I needed to point out the obvious..

but just to show people a very possible scenario, we aren't that far off from being a very competitive team..

however, that QB part is the biggest question.. DT not so much, as FA is possible. Marshall is the only key why we may be down a CB.. but I feel confident in saying Rivera will get the most out of him if he did somehow sign for a decent contract.. (how likely that is, up in the air)

until then, I think DT and CB will be fixed this year and next... and depth will be found as well, while being coached up..

and also, no where am I saying "HEY EVERYBODY! WE'LL BE BACK IN THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR!"..