Jaws: "I wouldn't give up on Jimmy"

[bleys]

for whoever to reference, these are our combined RB stats...

NYG Gm 1: 74 yards rushing (2 RBs) combined

TB Gm 2: 117 yards rushing (3 RBs)

CIN Gm 3: 77 yards rushing (2 RBs)

NO Gm 4: 107 yards rushing (2 RBs)

CHI Gm 5: 85 yards rushing (3 RBs + 2 WR)

SF Gm 6: 73 yards rushing (2 RBs)

Rams Gm 7: 31 yards rushing (2 RBs)

NO Gm 8: 111 yards rushing (4 RBs)

TB Gm 9: 107 yards rushing (100 from Goodson)

BAL Gm 10: 120 yards rushing (all from Goodson)

CLE Gm 11: 153 yards rushing (2 RBs)

SEA Gm 12: 131 yards rushing (4 RBs)

ATL Gm 13: 203 yards rushing (2 RBs)

ARI Gm 14: 163 yards rushing (3 RBs)

Steelers Gm 15: 71 yards rushing (2 RBs)

ATL Gm 16: 137 yards rushing

[bleys]

for whoever to reference, these are our combined RB stats...

NYG Gm 1: 74 yards rushing (2 RBs)

TB Gm 2: 117 yards rushing (3 RBs)

CIN Gm 3: 77 yards rushing (2 RBs)

NO Gm 4: 107 yards rushing (2 RBs)

CHI Gm 5: 85 yards rushing (3 RBs + 2 WR)

SF Gm 6: 73 yards rushing (2 RBs)

Rams Gm 7: 31 yards rushing (2 RBs)

NO Gm 8: 111 yards rushing (4 RBs)

TB Gm 9: 107 yards rushing (100 from Goodson)

BAL Gm 10: 120 yards rushing (all from Goodson)

CLE Gm 11: 153 yards rushing (2 RBs)

SEA Gm 12: 131 yards rushing (4 RBs)

ATL Gm 13: 203 yards rushing (2 RBs)

ARI Gm 14: 163 yards rushing (3 RBs)

Steelers Gm 15: 71 yards rushing (2 RBs)

ATL Gm 16: 137 yards rushing

[PantherFanForLife]

I think you just have evaluated our talent differently than our coach has. You don't need massive free agents (?? lol) to attack on offense. You also don't need to throw the ball 400 yards or make 80 yard receptions twice a game to have an attacking offense.

edit: as a note, we have some very good offensive weapons for an attacking offense.

Goodson & Dwill are great backs for catching passes out of the backfield.

Smitty and Gettis have both shown the ability to stretch the entire field this season. While Gettis took a pass all the way, Smitty was constantly open deep and had some nice deep catches, tho only one with Clausen (which of course was taken away, bastard refs). Lafell's also got speed and you never know how he will improve this year; he was a big target last year and Chud will find ways to utilize him and the others.

While our TEs have clearly not been utilized in pass catching, we have seen glimpses from Rosario of being a great catcher and a decent blocker, and Barnidge has the physical ability to go far. King is a great backup to an all around tight end.

Our QBs are our weakness but whatever. They've been talked about.

Our OLine needs depth and health, but it's a decent unit and with the correct schemes we could have decent pass blocking, especially if our RBs can learn to pass block too (Dwill could, seemed like Goodson/Stew missed a ton of blitzers).

Potential, potential, potential. Every fan can say the same thing about every offensive player in the NFL. You sugar coat everything real nice but the reality is, yes you do have to have an above average offense with personnel to have an attacking style offense. Which current NFL team has an average or below offense but play as an aggressive, attacking offense? The statement itself is an oxymoron. And you have to have a team that's geared towards that and committed to being that, blood and bone. FO to the coach to the personnel.

You keep pointing to the same guys that lead us to being the worst offense in the league as proof that we have potential to be an attacking aggressive offense. These guys could barely score a touchdown this past year, and now Rivera's going to have them ATTACK other defenses and scare them away with their touchdown scoring abilities?

If he can do that.....then give the man the GM position and the entire franchise cause he somehow did what Richardson's been trying and failed over and over....and that is he built BMWs with Ford parts.

Without an addition of offensive play makers it won't happen. It's simple. Take an egg, and yeah you can cook it over easy, scramble it or even make an omelet ...but you can't turn that egg into a steak no matter what you do to it.

[rayzor]

in addition to getting the QB situation worked out there are just a few things that need to be upgraded.

on the Oline, RG and depth need to be addressed. beyond that they just need to be healthy and put in a lot of time with whoever is QB.

TE is something that will have to be upgraded. i seriously doubt that the TE rivera and chud have in mind has been on the roster. i can't really see king coming back and rosario might be gone as well. barnidge might be around, but they don't need to go on the assumption that he can do the job. find the best FA or find a way to draft rudolph.

WR, i've said in other places that i don't have the confidence in our WR corps that many oter do. yes, gettis and lafell were impressive as rookies, but so was colbert. we don't need to assume that they will continue to grow, rather we need to be making plans in expectation of them not. smith isn't going to be around for years and even if he is, he won't be playing at a high level. the WRs are far from being set and we need to work to get another WR in there that can play at a high level. that might be green or it might be a FA we bring in. we just don't really need to go in with the same group we had last year. we need to improve there and make it easier for the QB.

RBs are fine and should not be tampered with.

it won't take a whole slew of aqcuisitions to turn things around. bringing in a RG, TE, and WR should be enough to turn things around and make it easier for whatever QB we have to succeed. at this point, while we are developing a QB, we don't need a QB who can win games for us, we just need one who won't lose games for us.

[mav1234]

Potential, potential, potential. Every fan can say the same thing about every offensive player in the NFL. You sugar coat everything real nice but the reality is, yes you do have to have an above average offense with personnel to have an attacking style offense. Which current NFL team has an average or below offense but play as an aggressive, attacking offense? The statement itself is an oxymoron. And you have to have a team that's geared towards that and committed to being that, blood and bone. FO to the coach to the personnel.

You keep pointing to the same guys that lead us to being the worst offense in the league as proof that we have potential to be an attacking aggressive offense. These guys could barely score a touchdown this past year, and now Rivera's going to have them ATTACK other defenses and scare them away with their touchdown scoring abilities?

If he can do that.....then give the man the GM position and the entire franchise cause he somehow did what Richardson's been trying and failed over and over....and that is he built BMWs with Ford parts.

Without an addition of offensive play makers it won't happen. It's simple. Take an egg, and yeah you can cook it over easy, scramble it or even make an omelet ...but you can't turn that egg into a steak no matter what you do to it.

So you're saying that last year's offense would have been "attacking" if we'd signed... say, Boldin and Housh?

We have playmakers, we need someone to get them the ball and the plays for them to succeed. If your argument is that Clausen isn't capable of running what we've seen out of Chud's offense, so be it, but that doesn't mean he will be our only option heading into camp. You say our receivers couldn't get in the endzone but seem to forget they did when Clausen wasn't at QB...

We actually had a guy on the roster (...before his injury, anyway) that sure looked like he could do things the way Chud likes, considering what he did with Derek Anderson.

We needed veteran leadership and superior coaching. We have better coaching. Now we need people on offense to step up... especially at the QB position. We also could use depth at WR, upgade at TE. But those aren't huge, gaping holes.

WR, i've said in other places that i don't have the confidence in our WR corps that many oter do. yes, gettis and lafell were impressive as rookies, but so was colbert. we don't need to assume that they will continue to grow, rather we need to be making plans in expectation of them not. smith isn't going to be around for years and even if he is, he won't be playing at a high level. the WRs are far from being set and we need to work to get another WR in there that can play at a high level. that might be green or it might be a FA we bring in. we just don't really need to go in with the same group we had last year. we need to improve there and make it easier for the QB.

If your argument is we have unproven individuals at WR and need proven depth, why exactly would you suggest we draft another WR? I think we'd be better off trying to bring in a solid veteran, but I don't think it'll be a super-flash acquisition like VJax or something. (OR BURRESS LOL)

[PantherFanForLife]

So you're saying that last year's offense would have been "attacking" if we'd signed... say, Boldin and Housh?

We have playmakers, we need someone to get them the ball and the plays for them to succeed. If your argument is that Clausen isn't capable of running what we've seen out of Chud's offense, so be it, but that doesn't mean he will be our only option heading into camp. You say our receivers couldn't get in the endzone but seem to forget they did when Clausen wasn't at QB...

We actually had a guy on the roster (...before his injury, anyway) that sure looked like he could do things the way Chud likes, considering what he did with Derek Anderson.

We needed veteran leadership and superior coaching. We have better coaching. Now we need people on offense to step up... especially at the QB position. We also could use depth at WR, upgade at TE. But those aren't huge, gaping holes.

If your argument is we have unproven individuals at WR and need proven depth, why exactly would you suggest we draft another WR? I think we'd be better off trying to bring in a solid veteran, but I don't think it'll be a super-flash acquisition like VJax or something. (OR BURRESS LOL)

No I'm saying we could have had an attacking offense if we drafted Housh, Boldin, fixed the O-line and had decent QB play and then had a coach committed to having that!

That's just the thing, ONE thing alone, one coach alone isn't going to turn this offense into an aggressive, attacking offense. You have to have that entire combination of things to get that.

But you certainly won't get there on the hopes and vision of a coach alone without the personnel capable of executing that vision. And look I said it all last year and I will say it again. I said it even when we were supposed to draft Luck. QB alone will not fix this offense. Clausen wasn't the main reason we sucked. Neither was Moore.

There were a lot of other factors. People put too much emphasis on one thing and fail to realize that EVERY gear in this machine is important. Not one. And for us to go from a broken ball control offense, to a working attacking, aggressive, requires we replace a lot of those gears with the correctly tuned parts.

As for your other comment, I'm not speaking for him, but drafting an additional WR may not be a much better move than drafting a FA, in the short term, but it would be in the long-term. But personally I'm not talking about just any receiver. I'm talking about AJ Green. He is a better prospect than any vet FA receiver in the NFL, imo.

The guy has maybe one or two CB that can hang with him in the NFL. He's going to run circles around most CB's, or better said, fly right over them like a bird!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTm9oFWJNg

1:12 in that video says it all.

As well as this:

Even Clausen can hit this guy. Just throw it up. He's the only one that can get to those balls. Draft a guy like that and you are one step closer to having that kind of offense you can attack a defense with.

[CRA]

No I'm saying we could have had an attacking offense if we drafted Housh, Boldin, fixed the O-line and had decent QB play and then had a coach committed to having that!

That's just the thing, ONE thing alone, one coach alone isn't going to turn this offense into an aggressive, attacking offense. You have to have that entire combination of things to get that.

But you certainly won't get there on the hopes and vision of a coach alone without the personnel capable of executing that vision. And look I said it all last year and I will say it again. I said it even when we were supposed to draft Luck. QB alone will not fix this offense. Clausen wasn't the main reason we sucked. Neither was Moore.

There were a lot of other factors. People put too much emphasis on one thing and fail to realize that EVERY gear in this machine is important. Not one. And for us to go from a broken ball control offense, to a working attacking, aggressive, requires we replace a lot of those gears with the correctly tuned parts.

As for your other comment, I'm not speaking for him, but drafting an additional WR may not be a much better move than drafting a FA, in the short term, but it would be in the long-term. But personally I'm not talking about A receiver. I'm talking about AJ Green. He is a better prospect than any vet FA receiver in the NFL.

The guy has maybe one or two CB that can hang with him in the NFL. He's going to run circles around most CB's, or better said, fly right over them like a bird!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTm9oFWJNg

1:12 in that video says it all.

As well as this:

Even Clausen can hit this guy. Just throw it up. He's the only one that can get to those balls. Draft a guy like that and you are one step closer to having that kind of offense you can attack a defense with.

didn't need those WRs to have an offens that could attack. You can be a running team that attacks downfield.

again, the WRs for a running team did a fair amount of scoring when Clausen wasn't the QB. QB just couldn't eliminate the horrible throws as well. We just need to find a decent QB option and be healthy......an NFL caliber offensive coordinator will also do wonders.

We attacked in 08 downfield....only difference was slightly competent QB play. Talent around the QB wasn't signicantly better or won't be at all than the team Rivera has in 2011.

Clausen couldn't get the ball to Steve Smith.......what makes you think the WR is the one to blame? Smitty's production was fine in 09 and 10 w/ Moore at QB.

[Sandy Claws]

TB Gm 9: 107 yards rushing (100 from Goodson)

Fumble by Goodson early, peanalties on D keeping TB drives going= down 21-10 at the half

BAL Gm 10: 120 yards rushing (all from Goodson)

BSP

CLE Gm 11: 153 yards rushing (2 RBs)

Running game produced and we were in it til the end missing the FG.

SEA Gm 12: 131 yards rushing (4 RBs)

Had our way through much of the first half, decided not to play any aspect of the game in the second half

ATL Gm 13: 203 yards rushing (2 RBs)

Most misleading stat of the bunch. 38 yards rushing in the first half, gave up 2 sacks, 3 other tackles for losses,down 17-0 at the half, Never closer than 2 scores but we sure piled up some rushing stats which Atlanta let us burn clock for them.

ARI Gm 14: 163 yards rushing (3 RBs)

Running game produced, line protected fairly well & we win

Steelers Gm 15: 71 yards rushing (2 RBs)

Start was strong but PENAlTIES. Nothing good

ATL Gm 16: 137 yards rushing

Not a whole lot different than the other Atlanta game 21-0 at the half, most rushing yardage after the break.

[MadHatter]

You don't have to see the future. Jimmy Clausen will not turn into Tom Brady by 2011. LaFell will not be Larry Fitzgerald in his prime in 2011. Otah will not be Otah in his prime in 2011. Smith will not be Smith in his prime in 2011.

It's common sense.

And I will make a bet with anyone, if we DON'T make some serious acquisitions on offense in the off-season this year, then ball control offense is what you will have next year!

And all of that is based on your lame opinion....which added to a quarter leaves you with a quarter.

You use your opinion as fact worse than any poster on this board.

[PantherFanForLife]

didn't need those WRs to have an offens that could attack. You can be a running team that attacks downfield.

again, the WRs for a running team did a fair amount of scoring when Clausen wasn't the QB. QB just couldn't eliminate the horrible throws as well. We just need to find a decent QB option and be healthy......an NFL caliber offensive coordinator will also do wonders.

We attacked in 08 downfield....only difference was slightly competent QB play. Talent around the QB wasn't signicantly better or won't be at all than the team Rivera has in 2011.

Clausen couldn't get the ball to Steve Smith.......what makes you think the WR is the one to blame? Smitty's production was fine in 09 and 10 w/ Moore at QB.

Smith's production was fine, but he's only getting older with each passing year. And now he's got another injury on his resume which only takes a toll on him. Smith himself has already come out and practically stated he wants to take on a lesser role.

Besides we needed a true #2 WR thread even when Smith was at his best. By this time next year we will need a #1.

[communist]

the problem is: you have a huge need at DT and you dont have a 2nd-round pick. that means, you cant afford to go for a WR at 1st ovr, imo...peterson and fairley are studs at their positions and you could use both of them.

Even if you know that you will get a nice DT in the 3rd, you still have to go for peterson over green.

[bleys]

get Orton in here, draft Green, Barnidge and Rosario should be a threat at TE with an OC who knows what a pass catching TE looks like.. and you have a high powered offense..

of course, a lot of people don't think that's necessary, but we can have one of those (most likely have to wait on a QB), and still set our defense up with FA DT's.. we could grab Peterson, but I think if we play more bump and run with an improved DLine, we can get enough pressure to keep Marshall around with Gamble and Munnerlyn and be successful..

is it a perfect defense? no.. but you can scheme great defensives with those pieces of the puzzle.. next year we can look at more options at CB..

of course, there is a debate worthy to say Peterson of Green.. I understand that, but I think Rivera can do more with less.. and if you put Gamble on the line, he's proven to be solid in that area.. Marshall is a physical corner who should benefit as well.. Munnerlyn is a very solid nickel.. and we can make a grab at 2 FA DT's and draft one in the 3rd..

is this likely to happen? prob'ly not.. but it is a solid debate, the only real knock on it has more to do with people realizing they CAN have a high octane, dynamic offense.. it's not out of your reach.. and it isn't all for nothing either.. I think some people think it's too much to ask for, well it's not..

again, doesn't mean that's what going to happen.. doesn't mean there aren't other solutions.. but I think you can get away with it, and it'll be more beneficial in the long run (say 2-3 years)

[PantherFanForLife]

the problem is: you have a huge need at DT and you dont have a 2nd-round pick. that means, you cant afford to go for a WR at 1st ovr, imo...peterson and fairley are studs at their positions and you could use both of them.

Even if you know that you will get a nice DT in the 3rd, you still have to go for peterson over green.

DT may be a need but you can plug that hole on defense in FA, or wait until next year(you can find a good DT even in the second round, and we will have that next year) and our defense can be above average. When in the next 100 years are we ever going to be in a position where we can actually draft the clear cut best receiver in the draft?

Next year we'll most likely have a QB need all over gain. We'll have O line needs. This is probably the only time we can actually acquire a guy like this, and it makes sense to do it.

But don't worry we probably won't. And we WILL probably get a DT. Which is why we will have an aggressive, attacking style defense, not offense, which will no doubt rock. But still a sucky, ball control offense at best that will have a hard time scoring points.

[mav1234]

Gettis outperformed Housh this year despite our offense, btw. While Smith is no Boldin he's still a damn good player. Last year we went out and tried to draft our Boldin and Housh's and build around them. I think we can do it, and I think we're not far off from really seeing something good from those two.

You're right though, it's not just one factor that will change an offense, but I never suggested that. This team would be greatly improved with better utilization/personnel at TE, better playcalling, and better quarterback play. We wouldn't turn into the Chargers or whatever but we'd certainly be better than last year. With the right elements it isn't hard to transition from a conservative offense to an aggressive one.

As to Green, I understand why people want him but I just see WR as the least of our issues on offense and one of the fewest on the team as a whole. We took 3 last draft, heh. He's a beast but I'm just not sure we'd want to go WR with the #1 pick.