McNabb placing blame?

[MadHatter]

I dont manage to turn every thread into that. But when its pertinent Ima speak on it. Some you fools dont think its ever pertinent and thats why you're uncomfortable speaking on it. Donovan McNabb has accomplished more than almost all of his contemporaries this era yet we've got people on this board who wont even acknowledge him as a QB? Thats disrespect. If Ive got a "race" agenda as some of you proclaim, some of you gotta "if a black man is considered great and he knows it I must tear him down" agenda. I call a spade a spade.

I call a spade a spade too....somone who continuously plays the race card is just someone who is only interested in making an excuse as to why they have not achieved success.

I do not personally care whether McNabb is HOF...or considered a great player. I could also care less about his race. I do not have nearly as high a regard for him as you for one reason.....he has stats, but continuously chokes in the big games. That, my friend, has nothing to do with his race.

If you think it does, I am definitely not the one of us who has a problem with the other's race.

[Mr. Scot]

Donovan McNabb has accomplished more than almost all of his contemporaries this era...

That statement is hyperbole to the point of being ridiculous.

[Mesmer]

Mmm.. I'll bite.

Not so fast with the KT bashing. I realize the guy has a certain reputation around here, but I have to partially agree with his argument. While I'll stay out of the personal things, he is right on Donovan McNabb.

This is only my opinion, but nobody here really knows what goes on inside a team's locker room. You can read all the snippets you want, but you're never going to know what it's going to be like to play for a certain team, unless you play for that team.

What we do know is that Donovan McNabb has not only put together some very impressive numbers throughout his career, but he's helped maintain success in Philadelphia. I know some people will point to Reid and Jim Johnson. Those guys deserve their credit too. However, you'd be lying to yourself if you tried to say that McNabb has not been a huge factor to their success since he was drafted.

The only thing missing from his resume' is a Super Bowl ring, and in my opinion, that shouldn't be a prerequisite to be in the HoF.

What matters is what McNabb has done on the field. He's been a great QB for the Eagles. He's got the numbers and the wins to prove that. Wanna be nitpicky about some of the things he says to the media, and snippets you read about how he has poor character.. that's fine.. but you can't deny the fact that he's been one of the best active QB's in the league since he was drafted.

[King Taharqa]

I call a spade a spade too....somone who continuously plays the race card is just someone who is only interested in making an excuse as to why they have not achieved success.

And someone who insists race plays 0 part in people's biases (especially when it comes to LEADERSHIP and INTELLIGENCE) and makes a knack of coming into threads about black athletes legal problems to stand on a moral high horse (something that you Mad Hatter, have shown a knack for time and time again) is someone who is very insecure and uber-defensive about their own jaded beliefs. Who can forget the fake onion article someone posted about Pacman Jones last year that fooled you into going into one of your infamous "im morally superior" tirades. LOL.

Jim Brown is one of the most successful football players of all time. He's set records, he's won accolades, he's made alot of money, and banged alot of famous women. He's a HOFer and a legend of the game. He is the epitome of success. He's also never been shy about speaking on race and how it pertains to sport. According to your logic, he's only doing so because he's not successful.

Every QB in this league, whether they are white, black, yellow, purple is pressed with the burden of proving they are winners. But black QBs are pressed with the extra burden of just proving they are QBs.

[jdl]

But black QBs are pressed with the extra burden of just proving they are QBs.

cant we all look past the color of skin, and just hate donovan because he wears eagles green?

[Mr. Scot]

At various times, I have disparaged Michael Irvin, Bill Romanowski, Todd Sauerbrun, Keyshawn Johnson and Joe Theisman. What do all these guys have in common?

Likewise, I have used the term "overrated" to describe quarterbacks Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson and Brian Griese. What do all these guys have in common?

(Hint: In both cases, "skin color" is not the answer)

And last, a few years ago, I wrote a blog entry for a Fox Sports contest describing how two teams were using their QBs in ways that didn't suit their styles and arguing that if they wanted to be successful with those QBs, they needed to adapt the offense to their strengths. One of the QBs was Jake Delhomme. Who was the other?

Never got a response from KT on these. I'm curious to see if anyone else knows the answers.

Honestly wouldn't expect you to necessarily know the answer to number three, but it's a topic I've discussed on this board before (Hint: It's not McNabb).

First two though? They should be relatively easy.

[Mesmer]

Likewise, I have used the term "overrated" to describe quarterbacks Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson and Brian Griese. What do all these guys have in common?

While it's arguable that Donovan McNabb is overrated, I find it very difficult to place him that group of QB's you have listed above. Johnson had a few decent seasons, Griese has really never been very good, and Garcia is just blah.

I'd say the closest to McNabb out of that list is Hasselbeck, but I think he's better. I know McNabb does well in the WCO, and that's the system for him, but how many QB's could be successful in completely different systems around the league?

On a different note, we should find out for either Brady or Cassel next season, and see how much the system affected the ousted party.

[MadHatter]

And someone who insists race plays 0 part in people's biases (especially when it comes to LEADERSHIP and INTELLIGENCE) and makes a knack of coming into threads about black athletes legal problems to stand on a moral high horse (something that you Mad Hatter, have shown a knack for time and time again) is someone who is very insecure and uber-defensive about their own jaded beliefs. Who can forget the fake onion article someone posted about Pacman Jones last year that fooled you into going into one of your infamous "im morally superior" tirades. LOL.

Jim Brown is one of the most successful football players of all time. He's set records, he's won accolades, he's made alot of money, and banged alot of famous women. He's a HOFer and a legend of the game. He is the epitome of success. He's also never been shy about speaking on race and how it pertains to sport. According to your logic, he's only doing so because he's not successful.

Every QB in this league, whether they are white, black, yellow, purple is pressed with the burden of proving they are winners. But black QBs are pressed with the extra burden of just proving they are QBs.

I prefer to speak about players as players....you are the one who continuously refers to them as "Black Athletes". You are the only one who seems to want to make race an issue when you feel a player is not "Revered" to your liking.

McNabb is an outstanding Quarterback. I have never disputed that. His downfall will be his record in big games.....1-4 in NFC Championship Games.

That record is a double edged sword. On one hand, it shows his ability as a QB to lead his team to the championship game 5 times...which is an exceptional feat. However, it also shows his continued inability to step up and win "The Big One". Putting these losses on McNabb's shoulders is indeed unfair. You win as a team and you lose as a team. But, it does bring into question his ability to deliver in the clutch.

Again, I do not evaluate a person or a player by his skin color. It truly has zero bearing on my opinion of them...whether on the playing field or in an office.

It it you who plays the race card when we do not agree with you to revere "A Black Athlete" as you put it. You are the one fixated on their skin color....not I.

[thefuzz]

As long as you dont make it your life's mission to sh*t on every superstar black athlete in sport I have no reason to call you biased or proclaim you have an agenda.

As thefuzz pointed out, Donovan's career QB rating sits at 85.9. Here's how some other HOF QBs stack up to that...

Brett Favre 85.4

Jim Kelly 84.4

Roger Staubach 83.4

Len Dawson 82.6

Sonny Jurgenson 82.6

Troy Aikman 81.6

Warren Moon 80.9

Bart Starr 80.5

Fran Tarkenton 80.4

Dan Fouts 80.2

John Elway 79.9

Johnny Unitas 78.2

I used QB rating as only one part of my analysis, and I notice that you only commented on that particular part, not the others, why is that?

Don't have enough time to break them all down but here goes....

Favre, no need to go past the 3 NFL MVP' awards.

Jurgensen, three passing crowns, but I don't know enough to argue him a lot.

Starr, 5x NFL champion

Elway, 2 SB to his name

Fouts, 40,000 yards passing, 4,000 yards passing 3 consecutive seasons, I am sure there are more reasons......

How about justifying the few other reasons that I posted.

And by the way the only QB's that are still in the game that are locks, are now Brady, and Manning 1. McNabb may get there, but in my opinion he is not a lock at all.

[Johnny Rockets]

McNabb is an outstanding Quarterback. I have never disputed that. His downfall will be his record in big games.....1-4 in NFC Championship Games.

That record is a double edged sword. On one hand, it shows his ability as a QB to lead his team to the championship game 5 times...which is an exceptional feat. However, it also shows his continued inability to step up and win "The Big One". Putting these losses on McNabb's shoulders is indeed unfair. You win as a team and you lose as a team. But, it does bring into question his ability to deliver in the clutch.

.

Well said. That sums up my feelings on McNabb and I think most Philly fans in general.

Even in less meaningful games if there is 2 minutes to go and McNabb has the ball and the offense in his hands, saying I am not overwhelmingly confident would be an understatement. Andy Reid doesn't help the cause any either IMO.

[King Taharqa]

Even in less meaningful games if there is 2 minutes to go and McNabb has the ball and the offense in his hands, saying I am not overwhelmingly confident would be an understatement. Andy Reid doesn't help the cause any either IMO.

Give him a Boldin or Housh to throw to!!! You cant expect miracles with what yall got now. Look at Drew Brees. Puts up huge passing #'s but has very few come from behind wins in his career and really has never won anything. The lack of a primetime big target hurts him as well.

[X-Clown]

Give him a Boldin or Housh to throw to!!! You cant expect miracles with what yall got now. Look at Drew Brees. Puts up huge passing #'s but has very few come from behind wins in his career and really has never won anything. The lack of a primetime big target hurts him as well.

Marques Colston? Antonio Gates? Keenan McCardell?

[thefuzz]

Give him a Boldin or Housh to throw to!!! You cant expect miracles with what yall got now. Look at Drew Brees. Puts up huge passing #'s but has very few come from behind wins in his career and really has never won anything. The lack of a primetime big target hurts him as well.

We agree on somthing, Drew was never a good come from behind winner.:hurray:

[Johnny Rockets]

Give him a Boldin or Housh to throw to!!! You cant expect miracles with what yall got now. Look at Drew Brees. Puts up huge passing #'s but has very few come from behind wins in his career and really has never won anything. The lack of a primetime big target hurts him as well.

No argument from me there....Hopefully that wish will come true. I really hope they work out a new deal with #5 and he is happy....then I hope they use some of that estimated $40 million they will be under the cap to sign that top tier receiver that he deserves.

Talks with McNabb should start taking place next week I would think once Fatty Reid gets back from Hawaii. I just hope both sides are open to compromise and things get done so we can make another run at a title next year. Bottom line is without McNabb in the picture, that won't happen.