For those wanting a new QB

[Fireball77]

We were just talking about QB's not the team, so really there is no reason to look at the contributions of anything else. I mean if you look at it no sh*t the team that wins the Super Bowl is a good team. I bet they had a winning record too. Come on now......

How is there no need to look at the contributions of any other phase of the game or of the surrounding players on offense? You can't talk about just the QB and say they win or get to the SB more often just because they have a first round QB. That's the stance that makes no sense. "POST HOC" DOES NOT MEAN "ERGO PROPTER HOC".

No one remembers the loser that's why, a SB win can buy you longer time and love than a loss...not sure how or why you don't get that.

I don't get it because it makes no sense. If a guy plays great and they lose because of other factors how is his play in the game any better or worse or deserving of more or less "love" or credit with the addition of the bling? Do you seriously think that Eli and Peyton are equal as QBs because they each have one ring? Or that Trent Dilfer was better than Peyton until Peyton's team won a SB? THOSE are "come on now" statements. The only person who should buy more time due to SB wins is probably a HC.

The career stats that really matter in the end are how many rings you're walking away with. So in that regard I believe Manning has the edge.

Manning is way younger, and has more potential to do it again/more.

Who cares if he has this or that bla bla, so his coaches and gm are good and ours isn't? That's a different matter.

So Eli is a less accurate passer than Jake, has thrown almost as many ints as Jake in 13 fewer games, and also has a worse career QB rating but the Cats haven't won a SB because of Jake's not being some first rounder and Eli is better than Jake because he has a ring? "Who cares blah blah if he has this or that" because anything that doesn't fit your argument will be summarily dismissed by you as being unimportant or irrelevant? Alrighty then.

Marino was probably the best pure passer ever, but do people say he is the best ever? Hell no, even if he really was no one thinks he is because hes got nothing to show but stats.

Great passers AREN'T nescessarily the best QUARTERBACKS. To me, it makes no difference whether Marino has a ring or not. IIRC, he didn't play very well in the aggregate in the playoffs. Hell, Elway had some stinkers in the playoffs. It took a complete TEAM for FIRST ROUNDER Elway finally to get a couple rings.

You think Jake would have won the Super Bowl on the Steelers roster this year? With that #1 defense? I say no, their line was bad(their run game was not good this year), and Jake would have been sacked and injured early.

Do YOU think Roethlisberger played so well this regular season? He didn't, he had an average year that when Jake had a similar one in 2006 with a far sh*ttier team around him, people were calling for his head. But hell the Steelers just gave BR a HUGE, HUGE CONTRACT prior to 2008 so the Cats should be glad they didn't lay 102 million dollars on Jake and then he had an average year. Since he isn't a first rounder, he can't have an average year and be lauded by you like BR is. Jake had his best year passing with his worst team around him on offense (2004). Jake has also never EVER had a defense like the Steelers defense even in just one of their "good" years like 2004 let alone 2008. If you truly do not understand how a defense that can stop even very good offenses from scoring and prevent other teams from taking advantage of your QBs' turnovers and give the offense great field position by creating turnovers and scoring themselves doesn't matter as much as a having a first round QB who put up average type #s in the regular season because having the the first round QB is what matters the most in making a SB and anything else is "blah blah the gm or coaching isn't as good", I have no idea how I can explain that to you.

Again, if you think rings makes someone a better player than a guy who has none, we are at an impasse because nothing could be further from the truth. It's what the guy does or doesn't do with his play to help or hinder his team getting rings, that's the only way to measure the PLAYER.

[frash.exe]

[Fox007]

If you truly do not understand how a defense that can stop even very good offenses from scoring and prevent other teams from taking advantage of your QBs' turnovers and give the offense great field position by creating turnovers and scoring themselves doesn't matter as much as a having a first round QB who put up average type #s in the regular season because having the the first round QB is what matters the most in making a SB and anything else is "blah blah the gm or coaching isn't as good", I have no idea how I can explain that to you.

Again, if you think rings makes someone a better player than a guy who has none, we are at an impasse because nothing could be further from the truth. It's what the guy does or doesn't do with his play to help or hinder his team getting rings, that's the only way to measure the PLAYER.

If you want to start a thread about defense wins championships go ahead, but this thread is about QBs.

I never said anything of the sort(see what I put in bold). So if you're just making up stuff to argue with your self about then go ahead I guess.

I just said drafted QB's/1st rounders actually make it to the SB and most even have success.(aka its perfectly fine to f*cking draft a QB)

All you are really doing is saying hey look guys, if you have a decent QB a good defense and a good offense you can win the SB.(well no sh*t)

Yet you don't respond to why the f*ck you think those teams draft those QBs.

They win championships yes? They have good defenses yes? Something tells me they know WTF they are doing so you keep wanting the Panthers to get scrubs off the street, and i'll keep wanting them to go the proven route.

Also since you're on the defense kick, does that mean since we don't have that top ranked defense that we should never try to attain a high pick QB or even draft one in any round?

Like you said, Jake never had that kind of defense, what makes you think we/he ever will? Are we to just wait until that happens before trying to get a QB worth a sh*t?

Some of the top tier QB's can make up for defensive deficiencies, plus we are moving more towards offense anyway. Our defense has like 1 named person on it now when Peppers leaves, and the offense will have 5.

Also this huge, insurmountable, magical, detrimental, crippling amount of money those good QB's get paid doesn't seem to be hindering those SB franchises.

Seems they are getting along just fine.

But I guess the Panthers won't be able to handle something like that, nope, every other winning team can do it, but not us.

For some reason we can't handle or imagine getting a QB worth some money, somehow that will implode the team and send it spiraling down, that would likely be what breaks the camels back and single handedly spins the USA into the next depression.

[outlaw4]

Oh boy!

[ATTACH]28635[/ATTACH]

:lurk5:

[Fox007]

Oh boy!

[ATTACH]28635[/ATTACH]

:lurk5:

It's not like that at all, just some people are mesmerized by Fox or something, and think the only way to get a QB is from FA since that is the way Fox rolls.

So when they are faced with "hey look no that isn't the way" it boggles their mind.

[Skew]

I think we should draft a kicker with our first round pick. Kasey is getting old.

What say you?

[Fox007]

I think we should draft a kicker with our first round pick. Kasey is getting old.

What say you?

I figured Lloyd would replace KASAY when he is ready to retire :confused:

[frash.exe]

[outlaw4]

It's not like that at all, just some people are mesmerized by Fox or something, and think the only way to get a QB is from FA since that is the way Fox rolls.

So when they are faced with "hey look no that isn't the way" it boggles their mind.

Honestly, I'm not big on the "Draft a QB in the 1st round/Acquire big FA QB" mainly for the boatload of money and cap room they take up. If they ever impose a rookie cap, then I'll reconsider the idea.

As for free agent QB's, let's just say the whole Carr saga has made me go against that route.

Right now, one option is essentially closed since we don't have a 1st rounder and the other option isn't looking great (no proven commodities) so I don't feel a need to get into this argument.

I think we should draft a kicker with our first round pick. Kasey is getting old.

What say you?

I'd do it just to see the Huddle implode for the next couple of months. Implosions used to piss me off but now they entertain me!

[Fox007]

Honestly, I'm not big on the "Draft a QB in the 1st round/Acquire big FA QB" mainly for the boatload of money and cap room they take up. If they ever impose a rookie cap, then I'll reconsider the idea.

As for free agent QB's, let's just say the whole Carr saga has made me go against that route.

Right now, one option is essentially closed since we don't have a 1st rounder and the other option isn't looking great (no proven commodities) so I don't feel a need to get into this argument.I'd do it just to see the Huddle implode for the next couple of months. Implosions used to piss me off but now they entertain me!

Even if you are not in the QB discussion, you can tell me where that money is going that would be taken up by that 'high priced QB'.

Who is getting it on this team/is it being used right?

Seems to me we should really be standing out in some area on the team since we are saving so much money by not having a high value QB.

[Fox007]

Here I'll even help ya.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/

Delhomme's price is not that far off from several QBs that are way better than him.

Now I don't want one of the 20+mil QB's by any means, but there are QB's with comparable salaries to Jake that perform much better.

Most of the top level QB's get between 7-12 mil, the 'elite' level QB's will have those 20+mill salaries.

It really isn't that terrible if you don't spend the literal #1 pick on someone.

[frash.exe]

you know you're just shoveling poo against the tide, right Fox007?

[outlaw4]

Here I'll even help ya.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/

Delhomme's price is not that far off from several QBs that are way better than him.

Now I don't want one of the 20+mil QB's by any means, but there are QB's with comparable salaries to Jake that perform much better.

Most of the top level QB's get between 7-12 mil, the 'elite' level QB's will have those 20+mill salaries.

It really isn't that terrible if you don't spend the literal #1 pick on someone.

If we're going by salary, I don't think Jake is anywhere near the top. If we're going by cap room, then it's not a good comparison since the cap hit for any player depends on when they signed the contract and how backloaded it is.

The way I see it, a lot of money is on the O-line and considering the performance of the running game, I think it's a good investment.

you know you're just shoveling poo against the tide, right Fox007?

Oh, you're a lot of help.

There's a good reason I'm not posting like I used to. There's no point, if someone disagrees, they are going to stay in disagreement no matter what anyone says.

Now, I'll step aside and let everyone else continue...

:lurk5:

[frash.exe]

There's a good reason I'm not posting like I used to. There's no point, if someone disagrees, they are going to stay in disagreement no matter what anyone says.

Now, I'll step aside and let everyone else continue...

:lurk5:

I honestly don't know why I go back into it with people here every once in a while.

Obviously there are some topics that are just rock hard and everybody's opinion is established, but the slightest disagreement on a less pressing issue can be just as volatile.