For those wanting a new QB

[top dawg]

Both the Bears and the niners have drafted a QB in the first round within the past 6 years. Neither of those guys are starting for their teams nor did they perform that well when they DID start so I don't want to call either team too cheap to draft/pay a 1st rounder when that blatantly isn't true.

Yeah, you're right, but I was thinking from the perspective of very highly touted draft prospects, not your run of the mill draft year. I could be wrong, but I just don't think that the scouts were mistaking any of these guys, including Smith, as the next Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, or even Eli Manning. Smith's stock was a lot higher than it probably should have been, according to some writers, because of a weak draft. So, yes, they pulled the trigger, but on Qbs who were still somewhat questionable as far as their ability to succeed at the pro level.

[Mr. Scot]

And here's a little problem with this. It seems that everybody's following the idea that we're suggesting anything like Fox is going to read the board and say, "HEY! That's a good idea."

It's common sense, when a QB plays that poorly in a playoff game, they'd probably get replaced.

I don't put out extensive writeups to convince a head coach that he needs to listen to me. I just call it the way I see it. That's just unacceptable, and it's not the first time we've seen him play poorly. He's had some very bad games this season, more than he's ever had. And also he did turn the ball over 3 times the last postseason game he had before that. It's not like this performance came out of the woodwork. It's not "just one game"

I don't know if there's any other reason to front that "HC isn't going to heed your advice" argument other than as a vessel to try and win a debate. It doesn't hold water.

But, then again, what do I know, I'm just a whiny, crybaby, backstabbing, ignorant fan who's just a Jake haterer. I didn't know if you were the smartest person in the world or just a moron lied solely on whether you critiqued Jake Delhomme.

(and that last paragraph wasn't directed at you Scot)

Can't agree with the 'common sense' part. QBs play poorly in playoff games every single year. It doesn't get them their walking papers. Delhomme had one of the worst in a while, but he's far from unique in that regard. And as far as that goes, the team considers it an aberration, not the norm.

People on here want Delhomme replaced. The whole topic of the thread is a story saying it's not going to happen. And yet people still come back with suggestions for why it should happen or even notions that despite all the evidence to the contrary, maybe it will happen.

That, frankly, is an exercise in futility. And it doesn't matter how many different arguments people come up with. It's just new ways of expressing a hope for something that isn't in the cards.

(ditto for the folks saying that maybe there's a way we can keep Peppers)

After the game, I thought he was gone. And truthfully, if I were part of the decision, it would at least be a consideration (though the "no good replacement" factor is a huge negative).

In the end though, I'm a realist. And every indication from reality is it ain't happening.

[Fireball77]

Yeah, you're right, but I was thinking from the perspective of very highly touted draft prospects, not your run of the mill draft year. I could be wrong, but I just don't think that the scouts were mistaking any of these guys, including Smith, as the next Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, or even Eli Manning. Smith's stock was a lot higher than it probably should have been, according to some writers, because of a weak draft. So, yes, they pulled the trigger, but on Qbs who were still somewhat questionable as far as their ability to succeed at the pro level.

Well that's just it isn't it, TD? If you draft them in the first, you have valued them as a first rounder whether the class is weak or strong and that is how their agents will want them paid. And they will get more money than the rookie contracts of the 1st rounders the year prior as well if drafted in similar slots even if those guys are actually better prospects or players than the current year's guys. So the net effect is the same...you miss on the guy, you pay big.

I can't remember who all the 1st round QBs were in 2003 besides RG. I think Boller was one of them also. Again, another guy who couldn't keep a starting role and that team around him wasn't too shabby. Leftwich was another 2003 1st rounder. Lost his job to a longshot type in Garrard. Though in fairness to Lefty, I think that he could still be an effective starter somewhere. I just think that his injuries and conflicts with DelRio spelled his end in Jax.

[pantherclaw]

Lefty has the longest wind up, and release in professional football. That is a hell of a thing to over come on every passing attempt.

[Fireball77]

That's true, he has to have a clean pocket...but he does tend to get rid of it fast a far as making the decision and throwing. I don't know if that's something that can be worked around, or that he's willing to try to alter but I don't think it's a deal killer as far as bringing him in to somewhere as competition to start.

[raleigh-panther]

And that is why you shouldn't be a gambler, cause you'd be broke.

People who say something like this, specially talking about the schedule, before the season even begins, seeing how teams will be NEXT year, always get me laughing.

Good stuff though...makes for entertaining reading on the huddle!

Well, you made laugh out loud, as I do gamble and i do well on futures bets and on the week in week out NFL bets in Vegas.

Look, I like John Fox. I like jake Delhomme. Ask me if i'd bet that combination would win a Superbowl and i'd place a bet in Vegas that they would, futures or otherwise, no, I would not.

I made the statement about 9-7 at best, based on the trending of Fox since his tenure here.

When the schedule is 'easier' due to a sub-par season, he does well. When the schedule is 'tougher', higher quality opponents week-in and week-out, he doesn't do well, 8-8 or 7-9. its not hard to predict.

It also goes along with his philosophy. Playing not to lose may get a team by the Lions, it won't get that team by the Patriots, Giants et al.

I also no longer believe that Delhomme scares anyone. He has become a sitting duck in that pocket. He refuses to just throw the ball away.

Do I hope i'm wrong, you bet I do. I'd love to come back here in February 2010, and say i was absolutely wrong, and if I am wrong, I'll say before someone says I need to.

[Brandon]

I have no problem with Jake's bad playoff game, other than the fact that he didn't get pulled. But the real issue is that we have a team that will need a new QB in the next two to three years, if not sooner. Unless we can work some magic and iron out the wrinkles in Matt Moore, we don't really have a credible candidate to lead this team in the future. There are a few good, young QB's available out there in trade (Troy Smith and Derek Anderson, among others) and while I understand that many of you are apprehensive about the Panthers pulling the trigger and getting rid of Jake, the problem is we are fighting a losing battle the longer we delay the search for his successor.

[thefuzz]

Both the Bears and the niners have drafted a QB in the first round within the past 6 years. Neither of those guys are starting for their teams nor did they perform that well when they DID start so I don't want to call either team too cheap to draft/pay a 1st rounder when that blatantly isn't true. I thought LS made a mistake actually when he benched Orton for Grossman prior for week 17 of 2005. It made absolutely zero sense to me on any level.

Anyone who has watched the Ravens in the past few years knows that with even a DECENT QB they would have been a big time contender. Hell they made the playoffs with McNair who was really not all that for years even prior to his stint with the Ravens. I still wonder if AJ Smith would have had the balls to strongarm Marty into starting Rivers and letting Brees walk in FA had Brees not gotten hurt that last game of 2005. Brees was coming off a good year (drafted in the second round too... ) and certainly didn't warrant being kicked to the curb for another QB sans that injury.

Brees had a good, not great season that year, and they had missed the playoffs. Rivers was sitting on the bench, and was AJ's "boy".

Brees, was offered a good contract to stay with the Chargers, but NO offered him more $ guaranteed, so he jumped ship.

I would have done the same thing in AJ's place. Offer a contract, but don't break the bank when you have a QB on the bench that you thought can be better, who is already making a poo load.

That situation, much like Palmer in Cinci has worked out perfectly for the Chargers. Draft a prototype QB and sit him for at least one year to learn to be a pro. Then let them take over.

The funny thing is, we are in a position to do that now, but I know that we won't.

[Cardiac Cats86]

Anderson reminds me alot of Delhomme, which may not be a good thing, Jakes prob got 1 (goo?) year left, i think this is the last season of his contract too, so maybe he'll come out blazin and win QB of the year. I think Moore has potential, they let Basanez go, I thought he was preety decent too.

[Murph]

http://carolinagrowl.com/SteveReed/archive/2009/02/11/panthers-might-have-to-wait-to-make-decision-on-injured.aspx

Actually a big deal. Now his 3.6 has to count towards the cap on the Feb 27th cutoff. Making the numbers even tighter trying to sqeeze in Peppers' tag, Gross' extension, etc. Restructuring Jake could save a lot but time is running out.

You know what, I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers franchise Peppers but wait to extend Gross after midnight after the first day of free agency. Then Gross wouldn't count against the cap. Unfortunately, he could easly walk also. I'm pretty sure you can't have a contract agreed on but hold off on signing it just for cap space planning.

[Fireball77]

The funny thing is, we are in a position to do that now, but I know that we won't.

If I wasn't so concerned with the defense and they had a first rounder, I would agree (if you meant use a first rounder), but this class of QBs is said to be pretty weak which is IMO a reason to hesitate as well. Still, I think it would be fine to spend some sort of draft pick on one this year.

I didn't know SD offered Brees a contract at all, my bad.

[Fox007]

If I wasn't so concerned with the defense and they had a first rounder, I would agree (if you meant use a first rounder), but this class of QBs is said to be pretty weak which is IMO a reason to hesitate as well. Still, I think it would be fine to spend some sort of draft pick on one this year.

This is probably the least cut in dry off season that I can remember.

We don't have a first rounder yet, we may or may not when this is all over.

That said the only pick worth picking up in the first round IMO is Stafford, otherwise I very much agree that this year is weak at QB.(they have Pat White rated as the 5th best)

If there ever looked to be a time for the Panthers to pick up a first round QB it would seem to be in next years draft.

The other bad thing about this draft too is that the quality of good defensive linemen appears shallow as well. Even if we landed a first round DT or DE, I wouldn't be completely sold on them being so great. Some of those guys remind me of Harvey.

[Fireball77]

HARVEY? UGH. So basically this draft isn't going to be really good for filling the defensive needs then either huh? Man, Pep & his agent are really gonna cash in big. On the flipside if they franchise him for trading purposes, they may get more for him than they would in a normal DE/DL class even though he says he most wants to play in a 3-4. I still am not 100% sure that's the truth of why he wants to leave.

[thefuzz]

If I wasn't so concerned with the defense and they had a first rounder, I would agree (if you meant use a first rounder), but this class of QBs is said to be pretty weak which is IMO a reason to hesitate as well. Still, I think it would be fine to spend some sort of draft pick on one this year.

I didn't know SD offered Brees a contract at all, my bad.

Oh I don't mean to say at all that we should go after a round 1 QB this year, I honestly don't really like any of them. All I was trying to say is that we have a good starter and run game, coming off of a winning season, and seem to have the pieces in order to sit a "franchise" QB for a year or two to learn the Pro game. Too bad there aren't really any out there that blow my socks off.

Yup, offered him the same amount, but it was more incentive based, due to the fact that he was coming off of a HUGE (for a QB) injury to his throwing arm. At the end of the day, he didn't know if he would be as good again, and too the guaranteed money. (don't really blame him) He and the media acted like SD just let him walk, but thats not the case.

The next 4 year or possibly three year starter to come out of college that has thrown for over 60% and won more big games than lost is who I will have my radar set on.