New interview video with Rivera posted at panthers.com

[mav1234]

It's not that hard to look at other teams who have hired new head coaches and see how long the process takes....I'm sure Rivera's anticipated time frame was in line with that time frame. It indicated to me that he's not very involved in the selection or hiring process....

He's clearly involved in some of the process since Chud was literally HIS guy who he wanted, he went on air in San Diego talking about how he wanted him and how he and Chud kinda knew that if one of them got a job at that level to look to the other.

He also met with Skipper personally while Hurney was at the Senior Bowl stuff, so it's clear he is doing some amount of the hiring work.

[Cat'sGrowl]

You guys are really reaching for something to be negative about.

And as is the way of life at the Huddle..

[monstercat]

You guys are really reaching for something to be negative about.

I'm usually one of the most positive posters on this board and I don't think it's a reach at all to say "show me" before I proclaim Rivera to be the right guy. Even you have to admit that Rivera's public demeanor is an awful like the HC that we just ran off.

The reason I have always defended John Fox's PC's, is that I don't care what a coach says nearly as much as I care what he does. So show me, don't tell me.

[mav1234]

I don't really get how you think a coach who wants a vertical passing attack and a good running game (and for neither to be reliant on the other), who wants an aggressive attacking offense AND defense, could be much like Fox.

His public demeanor? I dunno, I didn't listen to Fox's pressers the offseason he was hired, but just the things that Rivera emphasizes seem different than Fox, primarily relating to strength on both sides of the ball in many aspects of the game, as well as an aggressive approach to football.

Edit: On the other hand, I do think that actions will be more important than words and I see nothing wrong with a "let's wait and see approach" as long as it isn't also part of a, "AND I THINK WE WERE SUPER CHEPA AND THATS WHY"

[Mr. Scot]

I'm usually one of the most positive posters on this board and I don't think it's a reach at all to say "show me" before I proclaim Rivera to be the right guy. Even you have to admit that Rivera's public demeanor is an awful like the HC that we just ran off.

Actually no. I don't.

John Fox was very laid back in public. He had an engaging, easygoing personality. It even showed up in his coaching. When he was at minicamps, he was very much at ease. His "poker face" with the media was the one of a guy who was always relaxed.

Rivera's demeanor and body language are very different. Even if you didn't know his family background, you could just look at him and think "military". He always stands ramrod straight and looks like a guy that's thoroughly in control. I imagine he'd be a little intimidating in person. Fox was never that.

Plus, when you listen to him talk, it's all "hard work", "discipline", "work ethic" "commitment", "aggressive", "attacking"... Very much a "lunch pail" attitude. Throw in that he insists we must be able to both run and pass effectively in order for the offense to go whereas Fox always viewed the pass as just something you used to open up the run (and still does).

Yes, he still has to prove it. I think even he would say that. But honestly, I can't say I see much similarity at all.

(throw in that Fox was very much a polo shirt and slacks guy; I've yet to see a clip of Rivera in the Panther offices not wearing a suit)

[monstercat]

Dude, that's pretty much the exact same style offense we ran in 2010. Just because you use words like "agressive" or "attacking" doesn't neccessarily change anything. Every offense is designed to attack. It's just a matter of how you attack that makes them any different.

It sure sounds to me like this is still going to be an offense that utilizes the running game to set up those vertical PA passes, just like we have seen for the last 9 years, which is fine if you have a QB who can run it.

[mav1234]

Dude, that's pretty much the exact same style offense we ran in 2010. Just because you use words like "agressive" or "attacking" doesn't neccessarily change anything. Every offense is designed to attack. It's just a matter of how you attack that makes them any different.

It sure sounds to me like this is still going to be an offense that utilizes the running game to set up those vertical PA passes, just like we have seen for the last 9 years, which is fine if you have a QB who can run it.

How do you figure? He's specifically said he wants to use both and not rely on one to set up the other because being good at one will help the other, not necessarily in one direction. How you can not see the difference between "A punt is a good play" and "I would prefer my worst run to a pass" to "I want to have an attacking offense that is capable of moving the ball with either run or the pass and doesn't rely on either"? Paraphrases of both coaches of course. Fox was conservative to a tee, but nothing Rivera has said indicates he would be that at all.

The offenses Chuds has run with over the last few years haven't really looked like ours in 2010, either... at least when he's had good offensive weapons. In Cleveland with Derek Anderson, he used a wide variety of pass plays to target everyone... and yet they still ran the football a decent amount with Jamaal Lewis, but they didn't exactly use the run to set up the pass or whatever in a John Fox style.

I just don't believe Rivera sounds or looks like John Fox did the last few years. As I said, I didn't watch his pressers when he first got hired, but I've been watching everything from him for the last 3 years and just the way Rivera talks about the game is markedly different to me.

[Mr. Scot]

Dude, that's pretty much the exact same style offense we ran in 2010. Just because you use words like "agressive" or "attacking" doesn't neccessarily change anything. Every offense is designed to attack. It's just a matter of how you attack that makes them any different.

It sure sounds to me like this is still going to be an offense that utilizes the running game to set up those vertical PA passes, just like we have seen for the last 9 years, which is fine if you have a QB who can run it.

It actually is the same offense we've run before, but under Dan Henning, not Jeff Davidson. Davidson was a student of Charlie Weis. Henning was a "grandson" of Don Coryell. So was Norv Turner. Chudzinski is what you might call a Coryell "great grandson" (and one of whom people complained in Cleveland that he passed too much).

Go to the video and listen at about the 2:20 mark. Rivera's exact quote is this:

We want to run the ball, and run the ball effectively cause that'll open up the passing game, and vice versa. If we throw the ball well, it'd really help us as far as running it.

That goes back to his talking about "balance" in his opening presser, i.e. not an even split, but being able to do both effectively so that the opposing defense can't concentrate on only one part of your game.

Compare that the quote John Fox gave Woody Paige (that he would rather go with his worst running play than a pass play) and I think you'll see these are two very different coaches.

[monstercat]

I heard everything he said, but the fact of the matter is, we have been running a vertical passing attack for years. At it's core, this is not going to be the big change that some of you are expecting. Hopefully, the play calling will be better and there will be more screens and short passes for when the running game and long passing game are not working, but it's basically the same thing. Hell every offensive system in the world is designed to be agressive and to attack...that's why they call it offense.

None of this matters until we get a big time QB anyway though.

[Mr. Scot]

I heard everything he said, but the fact of the matter is, we have been running a vertical passing attack for years. At it's core, this is not going to be the big change that some of you are expecting. Hopefully, the play calling will be better and there will be more screens and short passes for when the running game and long passing game are not working, but it's basically the same thing. Hell every offensive system in the world is designed to be agressive and to attack...that's why they call it offense.

None of this matters until we get a big time QB anyway though.

Yes and no.

I always referred to Fox's approach as "ground chuck" (i.e. ground, ground, chuck it). His idea of a vertical passing game was to occasionally chuck it downfield so that the defense couldn't stack the box. That's not really a vertical game. It's just a way to "keep the defense honest".

Fox saw the pass as subservient to the run. Rivera views the pass and the run as equal options. In face, he insists on them being equal options. Big difference.

[monstercat]

Yes and no.

I always referred to Fox's approach as "ground chuck" (i.e. ground, ground, chuck it). His idea of a vertical passing game was to occasionally chuck it downfield so that the defense couldn't stack the box. That's not really a vertical game. It's just a way to "keep the defense honest".

Fox saw the pass as subservient to the run. Rivera views the pass and the run as equal options. In face, he insists on them being equal options. Big difference.

Well we sure had a lot of big pass plays with the Fox method, especially since we only had one really good WR for most of his tenure. My point is that Fox attacked too, he just perferred to do it with the run first and then go downfield. Either way will work if you have a good running game and a competent QB.

Hell, we could bring Fox back right now, give him the veteran QB that everybody wants and his old players back, and he could give us 8-8 or 9-7 standing on his head. I want more than that. I hope Rivera can do it, but I just don't know yet.

[Mr. Scot]

Well we sure had a lot of big pass plays with the Fox method, especially since we only had one really good WR for most of his tenure. My point is that Fox attacked too, he just perferred to do it with the run first and then go downfield. Either way will work if you have a good running game and a competent QB.

Hell, we could bring Fox back right now, give him the veteran QB that everybody wants and his old players back, and he could give us 8-8 or 9-7 standing on his head. I want more than that. I hope Rivera can do it, but I just don't know yet.

Fox still believed the approaches that worked in the 70s would work today.

He didn't believe in the franchise quarterback, opting rather for a guy that just didn't make mistakes. The NFL rules are no longer conducive to that kind of approach.

Rivera just spent the last several years watching Phillip Rivers. He understands what today's league is like (and has said so).

From what we're hearing out of Denver, I'm not sure Fox does, even after being let go.

[MattB]

Fox still believed the approaches that worked in the 70s would work today.

He didn't believe in the franchise quarterback, opting rather for a guy that just didn't make mistakes. The NFL rules are no longer conducive to that kind of approach.

Rivera just spent the last several years watching Phillip Rivers. He understands what today's league is like (and has said so).

From what we're hearing out of Denver, I'm not sure Fox does, even after being let go.

I don't think Fox is all to blame with regards to this. To me it is more of an organizational failure. Hurney/J-Rich never really believed in this either.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't think Fox is all to blame with regards to this. To me it is more of an organizational failure. Hurney/J-Rich never really believed in this either.

You might make a case for Hurney, though his drafting of Clausen argues against it. Richardson presided over the team that used its first ever pick on a guy they expected to be the franchise QB (Kerry Collins).

Both have now hired a head coach who most definitely does believe in the franchise QB model, so even if they didn't before, pretty safe to say they do now.