Cam Newton Public Workout

[Matt Moore]

I thought we banned people for this poo

[Udogg]

A lot of criticism about Newton is that he played in a spread read option offense. Newton is putting on a demostration to show that he can handle the ball from center in a traditional offense. People who's job it is to evaluate these things will go and watch then report.

People who say that they have a problem with Newton going to the panthers should be excited. If he can't do what they all say he can't it will be on public display. People who think he can do it will be excited to see if he proves their points. All the lovers and haters should shut the fug up and just watch.

[Udogg]

BTW, I've seen just about as many comparisons of Newton to Big Ben and McNabb than to Russell...

ROFL not on this board

[Mr. Scot]

You guys are playing dumb now.

When the first thing someone does is to compare Newton to Russell, they are taking the worst example of a Black QB not transitioning to the NFL and drawing a fear against Newton, just simply because they are the same race. People have done it with Michael Vick and Newton too.

How many comparisons have you seen between Warren Moon and Newton? I can't think of any. How about McNabb? Maybe one here and there. But Russell and Vick comparisons to Newton are all over the place. Why? Because of fear of his failure.

Now... you can choose to believe this or not... but there IS a stigma against black QBs in Football. Everyone knows there is. I'm not sure how it got started, or to what depth it runs... but it is out there. I'm not making this poo up.

You can pretend this isn't influencing people's judgment negatively towards Newton. I choose to be a little more honest. Lets call it like it is?

Let me tell you why - as I've said many times before - some black QBs have had trouble adjusting in the NFL.

It's because their college coaches teach them to be one-read-and-run quarterbacks like Newton rather than training them to be pocket passers like Warren Moon.

It happens to white quarterbacks too (Eric Crouch was a prime example) but more often affects black quarterbacks because there's a higher percentage that fit into the athletic quarterback mold.

The problem is that the one-read-and-run model works at the college level if you have a superior athlete. Unfortunately, it doesn't translate well to the pros, and thus the players who are taught that way wind up either as 2-3 year projects, position switches or total busts.

It's a disservice to the player, but a college coach's job isn't to prepare guys for NFL careers. It's to win games. For that reason, it's pretty tough to get them to go away from something that, at least for them, works.

Only two college coaches that I know of have broken that trend. Ohio State's Jim Tressel and WVU's Bill Stewart (who'll be replaced after next season) have taken athletic black quarterbacks and tried to train them to be pocket passers. The results are mixed. Troy Smith had some success but has been limited by perceived attitude problems. Pat White is out of the NFL entirely, but height was a limitation for him too, and he really only had one year under Stewart anyway.

Unless more college coaches go the way of guys like Tressel and Stewart, nothing is going to change. And I'm not optimistic of that happening because, as mentioned, at the college level it works.

(similar arguments can be made about spread system QBs, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with color)

That's where the real problem is. It annoys the living daylights out of me, but what can you do?

Still, if you want to go on insisting that it's just people being racist that's causing the issue, feel free :frown2:

[Mr. Scot]

Ok Mr. Scot. Since you are obviously pissed off about something I said... I'm going to make this as clear as I can...

I didn't bring up race until someone responded to one of my threads with a racist remark. Since then, the gloves came off, because that sort of intolerance is exactly what we don't need around here.

And for the record, being a white man, I'm not ASSUMING there are white people who are secretly racist. I've been in situations around white men who, behind closed doors, DO harbor racist thoughts and share them with other white men. It's disgusting, but it does happen.

I've been around people who are secretly a lot of things.

That doesn't give you the right to start throwing out accusations of people on here.

Again, how about you just accept that there are people on here who have valid reasons for not liking the same quarterback you like rather than trying to make it all about race?

To put it another way, how about arguing the actual facts and issues rather than just trying to denigrate the person you're debating?

It takes courage to believe that intelligent people can disagree with your opinion. I have no trouble believing that. What about you?

[mav1234]

ROFL not on this board

pretty sure I've seen as many of Big Ben. McNabb may have been on other boards I read. I'll be honest, the Cam Newton threads blend together... until race comes up, anyway.

[Zod]

The bottom line is that Newton is PROJECTED as a mid to late round draft choice. Even if the Panthers do believe he is the best player on the board, it would be idiotic to take him at #1. You would be paying more money and passing up the opportunity to pick up additional draft picks that we need desperately.

If he is or is not the best overall player is irrelevant. The perception that he will be there in the mid first round is extremely relevant.

I don't think many in here are completely against drafting him. I think we are completely against once again not getting the total value for our pick that we could have gotten. Why take him at #1 when he will be there at #10 or even #15 and at the very least we could save money and pick up a few late round picks?

Is that hard to understand?

[Mr. Scot]

The bottom line is that Newton is PROJECTED as a mid to late round draft choice. Even if the Panthers do believe he is the best player on the board, it would be idiotic to take him at #1. You would be paying more money and passing up the opportunity to pick up additional draft picks that we need desperately.

If he is or is not the best overall player is irrelevant. The perception that he will be there in the mid first round is extremely relevant.

I don't think many in here are completely against drafting him. I think we are completely against once again not getting the total value for our pick that we could have gotten. Why take him at #1 when he will be there at #10 or even #15 and at the very least we could save money and pick up a few late round picks?

Is that hard to understand?

It shouldn't be :nonod:

I've already said I don't want any quarterbacks in the draft this year. I don't care what color they are. We're already young enough at that spot.

Veterans only for me, and again, color is irrelevant. Skills, ability and intelligence matter...a lot.

[blackcatgrowl]

Let me tell you why - as I've said many times before - some black QBs have had trouble adjusting in the NFL.

It's because their college coaches teach them to be one-read-and-run quarterbacks like Newton rather than training them to be pocket passers like Warren Moon.

It happens to white quarterbacks too (Eric Crouch was a prime example) but more often affects black quarterbacks because there's a higher percentage that fit into the athletic quarterback mold.

The problem is that the one-read-and-run model works at the college level if you have a superior athlete. Unfortunately, it doesn't translate well to the pros, and thus the players who are taught that way wind up either as 2-3 year projects, position switches or total busts.

It's a disservice to the player, but a college coach's job isn't to prepare guys for NFL careers. It's to win games. For that reason, it's pretty tough to get them to go away from something that, at least for them, works.

Only two college coaches that I know of have broken that trend. Ohio State's Jim Tressel and WVU's Bill Stewart (who'll be replaced after next season) have taken athletic black quarterbacks and tried to train them to be pocket passers. The results are mixed. Troy Smith had some success but has been limited by perceived attitude problems. Pat White is out of the NFL entirely, but height was a limitation for him too, and he really only had one year under Stewart anyway.

Unless more college coaches go the way of guys like Tressel and Stewart, nothing is going to change. And I'm not optimistic of that happening because, as mentioned, at the college level it works.

(similar arguments can be made about spread system QBs, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with color)

That's where the real problem is.

But if you want to go on insisting that it's just people being racist, feel free :frown2:

Wait wait wait... because some college coaches have mis-taught black QBs on how to play under center, this is where the problem comes from?

And that fact isn't a show of racism how?

[blackcatgrowl]

I've been around people who are secretly a lot of things.

That doesn't give you the right to start throwing out accusations of people on here.

Again, how about you just accept that there are people on here who have valid reasons for not liking the same quarterback you like rather than trying to make it all about race?

To put it another way, how about arguing the actual facts and issues rather than just trying to denigrate the person you're debating?

It takes courage to believe that intelligent people can disagree with your opinion. I have no trouble believing that. What about you?

Again, damnit, who have I directly accused of being racist? (Besides that one poster who obviously was)

I think you're attacking ME for what KT is saying about YOU.

What *I* am saying is there IS racism present, and it's influencing draft boards and analysts. In fact, your post above pretty much confirms that sentiment (that college coaches are somehow "damaging" black QB's chances in the pros).

[Mr. Scot]

Wait wait wait... because some college coaches have mis-taught black QBs on how to play under center, this is where the problem comes from?

And that fact isn't a show of racism how?

Read again...

It happens to white quarterbacks too (Eric Crouch was a prime example) but more often affects black quarterbacks because there's a higher percentage that fit into the athletic quarterback mold.

It's the type of player they are (i.e. athletic QB). Not the color of their skin.

Spread offense leave QBs ill-prepared for the NFL too. Most of those guys are white, but it's essentially the same problem (works in college, but not in the pros).

[blackcatgrowl]

Read again...

It's the type of player they are (i.e. athletic QB). Not the color of their skin.

Spread offense leave QBs ill-prepared for the NFL too. Most of those guys are white, but it's essentially the same problem (works in college, but not in the pros).

Yeah, but saying it happens to SOME White QBs is different than saying it happens to MORE black QBs.

And I'm not saying you're wrong here... but even this sentiment carries with it a tinge of racism.

[Mr. Scot]

What *I* am saying is there IS racism present, and it's influencing draft boards and analysts.

And what actual evidence do you have to back that statement up, other than your own opinions?

Do you have anything whatsoever that you can use to show a single analyst has allowed race to factor into his assessment?

The fact that they see him differently than you do does not qualify as evidence. You have to give me something objective or that argument falls completely flat.

[MHS831]

I would not draft him--you want Cecil's dumb ass calling the shots?