A non sugar-coated look at Jimmy's season

[panthers55]

Can we put to bed the notion that you have to get tons of reps with the 1s in training camp in order to be expected to do a decent job as a rookie. Seems I remember a rookie coming in with 1 week practice with the first stringers in 2007. He wasn't here in the preseason and had no training camp at all. Played 3 games winning 2 and had 3 TDs versus 2 Ints. All three of those games he had a rating above 70 and two of them in the 90s.

Clausen will get his shots next year but lets be serious, he was awful and all the excuses are ridiculous. It has no bearing on next year or his potential. Those castigating him as a bust are no worse than those trying to spin that crap we saw as not that bad. Both are extremes and the truth is closer to the middle.

[Ricky Spanish]

I'm not calling him a bust, I'm just calling him a waste of a second round pick, just like i said when we drafted him. we really had no business taking him and I'm very upset that we did. there's a reason he fell all the way to us, and hurney was dumb enough to draft him, then turn around and trade our second this year to take armanti in the third.

I can't really explain the way I feel about clausen I guess. I didn't want us to draft him because I had a feeling he would suck, and we drafted him, and he sucked, and now people want to turn around and just give him another shot just because we wasted a 2nd round pick on him. these are the same people that were all on andrew luck's pole before he decided to stay at stanford.

I guess the best way I can explain it is this:

Let's say that you are starving. you haven't eaten for 2 days for whatever reason, your choice. you stumble into a suburban neighborhood onto someone's lawn. you are so incredibly hungry that you start seeing things, Like a snickers bar on a lawn... but wait, it IS a snickers bar on the lawn! you are so hungry you crawl over to it and take a big bite, only to find out that what you thought was a snickers bar was a big ol' dog turd.

panthers fans are the starving guy, jimmy clausen is the dog turd. we're so hungry for a QB that we would eat dog poo (clausen) just because it looked like candy the first time we saw it.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't like eating dog poo. we need a QB and jimmy isn't our solution. he's just another dog turd in the middle of the yard.

[Ricky Spanish]

by the way, i have a feeling that blaine gabbert is a dog turd too.

[rayzor]

Can we put to bed the notion that you have to get tons of reps with the 1s in training camp in order to be expected to do a decent job as a rookie. Seems I remember a rookie coming in with 1 week practice with the first stringers in 2007. He wasn't here in the preseason and had no training camp at all. Played 3 games winning 2 and had 3 TDs versus 2 Ints. All three of those games he had a rating above 70 and two of them in the 90s.

Clausen will get his shots next year but lets be seriously, he was awful and all the excuses are ridiculous. It has no bearing on next year or his potential. Those castigating him as a bust are no worse than those trying to spin that crap we saw as not that bad. Both are extremes and the truth is closer to the middle.

you're probably right, but i still maintain that he didn't do anything to deserve a second chance next year but will get one by default and probably will be given some of a benefit of the doubt b/c of the clusterf*** that was the 2010 season.

i've said it before, i hope he can turn it around and he turns into a great QB b/c i sure am tired of the crap we've had to make excuses for at QB for years. i'm just far from being sold on him as the answer we've been waiting for. he's got a ton of obstacles to overcome that hopefully can be coached out. he's also got a ton of maturing to do as well before this team looks to him as a leader in the huddle.

[panthers55]

you're probably right, but i still maintain that he didn't do anything to deserve a second chance next year but will get one by default and probably will be given some of a benefit of the doubt b/c of the clusterf*** that was the 2010 season.

i've said it before, i hope he can turn it around and he turns into a great QB b/c i sure am tired of the crap we've had to make excuses for at QB for years. i'm just far from being sold on him as the answer we've been waiting for. he's got a ton of obstacles to overcome that hopefully can be coached out. he's also got a ton of maturing to do as well before this team looks to him as a leader in the huddle.

Your not alone in being very disappointed in his play especially after the hype about how ready he was to play in the NFL. He really didn't do much to give anyone confidence. Those that defend him need to let it go. After all it isn't about how bad he looked but how bad or good he will be in the future. I would like us to get a capable vet to start and let him sit and learn like he should have been able to do last year. Meanwhile decide if Pike is the one or bring in another guy to develop in the event Clausen isn't the one and the vet isn't a long term solution. Like you, I don't want to wait for 3 or 4 years to decide if he is a bust or not while we flounder at the bottom of the division. I want a franchise quarterback just like Tampa, New Orleans, and Atlanta. I would take one in the first round, so what do I know???

Just want to make sure we have a guy we can build the offense around. Rather than the Fox approach which is be a game manager.

Just don't know who that person would be at this point.

[CRA]

Ok, I'm sorry. I did infer from your statements that you didn't think it was Moore's fault in the same way you thought it was Clausen's, and I appreciate you clearing it up.

So if Moore sucked, Clausen sucked, Pike sucked, and BSP sucked, is it remotely possible that something else was going on where QB play was concerned?

well, Foxy's offense isn't exactly QB friendly....never has been (especially once Davidson came on board).

BSP was a stay at home and out of shape dad....who put in a solid game up until midway in the 4th all things considered. I think that actually says a lot.

Pike was a big project so not much can be taken from him imo. Nor did we really even see him.

Moore has had success in the offense and had moments this year. I just think we saw what Moore was this year. We knew coming in he wasn't a going to be great. He had always been sort of streaky. His starts were good in the past but his overall body of work showed he was a high risk high reward type QB. He would gamble (like a young Jake) and sometimes it worked.

I just think it is overblown how bad things were around them. I do think Fox (and company) were a problem. But that isn't new.....Fox has been a constant. Fox's method works to a large degree though...always has.

I mean, I was/am a "Moore" guy. I thought he earned a shot. I thought Fox clearly mismanaged the QB situation. I mean, benching him in week 2 was just a poor move...regardless of where it came from. He prepped his team all year for Moore to be the guy and Moore embraced it. With a concussion mixed in......it just made no sense to bench him in a winnable game week 2. That wasn't a fair shot. That is really the only thing I defend Moore on. At a miniumum based on the roster and prep he deserved at least 3 games.

My biggest issue w/ Jimmy are the "surprises" we got w/ him. I expected the blitz to give him trouble. I expected him to struggle. I expected a long season. We all should be able to handle that w/ a rookie. My problem is his basic fundamentals look horrible. For a small kid, I just don't see how we can put him out there w/ a slow telegraphed motion w/ the ball coming out low. That creates tons of new issues....ones this fan wasn't prepared for. I think that plays into why he ignored most of the field. It is just too difficult for him to make plays to the middle of the field b/c of his size and throw.

I know I bash Clausen but I legitimately don't want him to suck. Based on his mechanics, I think if he is put out on the field anytime soon......I think his career as a starter will be over before it was legitimately given a real chance.

My biggest issues w/ Jimmy are the "surprises" we found out about.

[party_animal]

jimmy's issue is that he plays like he's scared. it's all mental. when the defense comes after him, he has a strong tendency to freak out. he threw a lot of balls into the ground at notre dame this way. it's what leads to him throwing off his back foot, it's what leads to some of his throws going off the mark. when he has a chance to stand in the pocket and he's not playing scared he does fine. i've seen enough of his games for the fighting irish to see what his game is all about. this isn't something that's beyond coaching. it can be fixed.

[...]

People say mental issues like that can be fixed but I don't often see them actually get fixed.

[David Duke Is a Bad Person]

Jimmy needs to go see a shrink.

[CRA]

People say mental issues like that can be fixed but I don't often see them actually get fixed.

true.

drastic changes to your throwing motions along w/ the instinct to panic don't rarely get changed this far in players' career's. How many teams have claimed they could "fix" Carr? Doesn't matter the coach, system, or his protection......Carr is what he is.

[koolkatluke]

true.

drastic changes to your throwing motions along w/ the instinct to panic don't rarely get changed this far in players' career's. How many teams have claimed they could "fix" Carr? Doesn't matter the coach, system, or his protection......Carr is what he is.

The QB coach Rip S didn't help at all either. You can see Jake's decline when he started with this team.

[Woodie]

Can we put to bed the notion that you have to get tons of reps with the 1s in training camp in order to be expected to do a decent job as a rookie. Seems I remember a rookie coming in with 1 week practice with the first stringers in 2007. He wasn't here in the preseason and had no training camp at all. Played 3 games winning 2 and had 3 TDs versus 2 Ints. All three of those games he had a rating above 70 and two of them in the 90s.

Clausen will get his shots next year but lets be serious, he was awful and all the excuses are ridiculous. It has no bearing on next year or his potential. Those castigating him as a bust are no worse than those trying to spin that crap we saw as not that bad. Both are extremes and the truth is closer to the middle.

Situations were not remotely similar. Matt came in after final cuts, and only played in mop up duty (usually when we were out of the game), but he didn't get his first start until the end of the season. So by the time he was expected to lead the team, he had most of a season to sit and learn and develop, while having a vet in VT to help him out. It was also reported that they also shrunk the playbook in order to simplify the game for him and limit his mistakes. That was not the case with Jimmy.

And while reps with starters is not the be all, end all for decent QB play, pretty much every player will tell you that it is important in developing chemistry, recognizing tendencies, and simply understanding how to play as a unit. That doesn't excuse Jimmy's bad play, but it surely didn't help.

[koolkatluke]

Situations were not remotely similar. Matt came in after final cuts, and only played in mop up duty (usually when we were out of the game), but he didn't get his first start until the end of the season. So by the time he was expected to lead the team, he had most of a season to sit and learn and develop, while having a vet in VT to help him out. It was also reported that they also shrunk the playbook in order to simplify the game for him and limit his mistakes. That was not the case with Jimmy.

And while reps with starters is not the be all, end all for decent QB play, pretty much every player will tell you that it is important in developing chemistry, recognizing tendencies, and simply understanding how to play as a unit. That doesn't excuse Jimmy's bad play, but it surely didn't help.

I agree. Plus people don't really give credit 2 having a Vet like Vinny in your ear on the sidelines.

[Woodie]

If this was the case, you would expect his first two games to be his worst, because of unfamiliarity with the offense. But they weren't - his middle games of the season were by far his worst in many ways. *shrugs*

I don't think the practice reps in camps are responsible for the difference between the two. You can believe it if you want, but I think your point about coaching and systems is more accurate as to why Clausen struggled so mightily... that, and the little thing about his questionable mechanics.

It didn't take long for the book to get out on Jimmy. He was a rookie that clearly wasn't ready, with an OL that was doing a poor job of protection, with a run game that had not been doing well, and rookie receivers that were still trying to figure things out themselves. Not to mention, teams got the chance to see just how Fox & co. were going to (or not) adjust and use him. But if you watched those games (and I'm sure you did), you had to recognize that Jimmy had absolutely no chemistry with the starting offense whatsoever...and with the way the year went, never developed it.

Now if he would have worked with them, would things have been different, probably to a degree, but not appreciably. He still had so much going against him, and as I have said, was not ready to be on the field. He needed a year on the bench before he should ever have seen the light of day.

But as for the difference between Clausen and Bradford, it is a ridiculous comparison. Other than the fact they were both rookie QB's, there was nothing comparable about there situations. Everything was so different, from expectations, to the performance of the team around them, to the coaching and gamplanning they received, etc. It is an apples to oranges comparison.