A non sugar-coated look at Jimmy's season

[carolinanimal]

i have a questions about clausen.

can he be the leader of the offense and this team?

basically that is what a qb is more than anything. leader of the offense and team. does he take command of the huddle? do his teammates believe in him? can he handle the different personalities on a team?

also, if luck had declared , those saying jimmy didnt have a fair shot, would you have not taken him?

[mav1234]

My mistake. I remember the hype when the Rams played the Pats in the preseason. Apparently that was his first start. That's still a lot more time with the starters than the Jimmay has had.

You would have a point if we were comparing the play of two players across a limited time frame, say in their first 4 NFL regular season starts... but when you look at them across the season, I think it's fair to say that the extra time Bradford had with starters is not the major reason for his superior performance as a rookie.

Not saying we should have expected the same things out of Bradford as we did out of Clausen or anything, just saying dismissing the difference due to time with starters is, imo, unfair to both players.

[Woodie]

i have a questions about clausen.

can he be the leader of the offense and this team?

basically that is what a qb is more than anything. leader of the offense and team. does he take command of the huddle? do his teammates believe in him? can he handle the different personalities on a team?

also, if luck had declared , those saying jimmy didnt have a fair shot, would you have not taken him?

He needs to earn the team's respect before he can be the leader, and he has to start playing better before he earns their respect. So it really comes down to him needing to step up his play. If he does, I believe he'll be a fine leader, but if not, then nobody will follow him.

If Luck had declared, I would have taken him in a minute, and I'm one that thinks Jimmy can still end up being a very good QB. But, IMO, Luck is a once on a lifetime QB. I think, barring injury, he will end up being as good as Manning, Brady, and all of the other great QB's. Whereas I think Jimmy can be a very solid starter, and possibly good enough to be a SB QB at some point. But I just don't think he will ever be at Luck's level.

[Woodie]

You would have a point if we were comparing the play of two players across a limited time frame, say in their first 4 NFL regular season starts... but when you look at them across the season, I think it's fair to say that the extra time Bradford had with starters is not the major reason for his superior performance as a rookie.

Not saying we should have expected the same things out of Bradford as we did out of Clausen or anything, just saying dismissing the difference due to time with starters is, imo, unfair to both players.

Don't underestimate it either. Remember, while Bradford was getting some (not all) work with the starters in mini-camps, OTA's, TC, etc. that Jimmy was getting only 2nd and 3rd string reps sitting behind Cantwell. And if I remember right, Jimmy didn't even take one snap with the starters until the week after Moore got his concussion. So he didn't have any timing with his offense, nobody knew him or his tendencies, and they were unfamiliar with his demeanor.

IMO, I think Fox really wanted to prove a point by making it as difficult on Jimmy as possible, and show Hurney that he made a mistake by forcing Clausen on him. Unfortunately for Fox, I think it backfired on him. I believe he felt Moore would be just fine as the starter, so he could screw with Jimmy a bit as a snub to MH. However, when Moore came out so poorly and then got injured, he was forced to play Clausen, who was clearly not ready.

We can only guess, but I truly believe that if Fox and his staff had comitted to developing Jimmy, that he would not have looked anywhere near as lost as he did. First of all, it would have provided Jimmy with some training he needed, but also it would have given the coaching staff a better idea of how to take advantage of Jimmy's skills rather than simply trying to fit him into their plan...no matter how bad a fit he was.

[mav1234]

Don't underestimate it either. Remember, while Bradford was getting some (not all) work with the starters in mini-camps, OTA's, TC, etc. that Jimmy was getting only 2nd and 3rd string reps sitting behind Cantwell. And if I remember right, Jimmy didn't even take one snap with the starters until the week after Moore got his concussion. So he didn't have any timing with his offense, nobody knew him or his tendencies, and they were unfamiliar with his demeanor.

If this was the case, you would expect his first two games to be his worst, because of unfamiliarity with the offense. But they weren't - his middle games of the season were by far his worst in many ways. *shrugs*

I don't think the practice reps in camps are responsible for the difference between the two. You can believe it if you want, but I think your point about coaching and systems is more accurate as to why Clausen struggled so mightily... that, and the little thing about his questionable mechanics.

[Cyberjag]

Clausen just doesn't have good skills set to play in the NFL and showed....the result was poor play for a rookie, but good play in a bad situation for a fourth year veteran.

I think you need to add that, as it lends some perspective to your statements. You're willing to defend Moore and toss others under the bus for him, but you won't give a rookie the same benefit of the doubt.

Kind of a backwards double standard, if you ask me.

[Sandy Claws]

You would have a point if we were comparing the play of two players across a limited time frame, say in their first 4 NFL regular season starts... but when you look at them across the season, I think it's fair to say that the extra time Bradford had with starters is not the major reason for his superior performance as a rookie.

Not saying we should have expected the same things out of Bradford as we did out of Clausen or anything, just saying dismissing the difference due to time with starters is, imo, unfair to both players.

IMO I think it was significant, but not as significant as the conservative philosophy of the John Fox Carolina Panthers. I truly believe that the Jimmay was playing under restrictions that Bradford was not.

[Sandy Claws]

If this was the case, you would expect his first two games to be his worst, because of unfamiliarity with the offense. But they weren't - his middle games of the season were by far his worst in many ways. *shrugs*

.

His middle games were also wrapped around a concussion.

[TheRealDeal]

You guys act like we had starters all pre season in terms of skill guys that he'd need to gel with. DWill didn't play hardly at all, Stewie didn't play at all, Smith didn't play at all, and the rest of our receivers played rotationally through all games.

We didn't have a set receiver depth chart until week 1 and it was Smith and LaFell. A lot of preseason, Moore got reps with LaFell, Gettis, Jarrett, Martin, everyone and so did Clausen. The only thing different was the line which isn't a big deal.

Bad excuse. Try again.

[Cyberjag]

The line isn't a big deal to a QB?

What game are YOU watching?

[CRA]

I think you need to add that, as it lends some perspective to your statements. You're willing to defend Moore and toss others under the bus for him, but you won't give a rookie the same benefit of the doubt.

Kind of a backwards double standard, if you ask me.

No, you simply put words in my mouth claiming that is my stance.

I consistantly have blamed Moore and said he played down right awful this year. I don't then try to say he played bad b/c of of the OL, Fox, or b/c he wasn't allowed to wear his lucky drawers. I put it on Moore.

Once you here the words Moore was however clearly a better QB then Clasuen you spin that as me claiming Moore was good.

I am not defending Moore's play. Moore is just noticeably better than Clausen. Both were bad. Two different kinds of bad.

Who have I thrown under the bus for Moore? There are endless threads where I said Moore flat out missed throws and made poor throws. Yeah, the OL and ground game weren't great.....but that had nothing to do w/ a lot of the bad Moore displayed. Which is no different than what I say about Clausen. Moore is just flat out better than Clausen and was as a rookie. That is just the truth. Clausen showed nothing in all those games......Moore at least has shown legit QB play in his career in Carolina.

-Moore sucked this year.

-Clausen sucked this year.

-Moore at times in his NFL career (and as a rookie) showed potential he could play at this level.

-Clausen just showed his game has a lot of flaws.....flaws that have nothing to so w/ being a rookie as well. Clausen displayed some of the worst rookie play we have seen in the NFL in some time. Worse than low drafted rookies that came in on bad teams, w/ no reps, and can have some of the same excuses people make for Clasuen applied to them.

[Cyberjag]

Ok, I'm sorry. I did infer from your statements that you didn't think it was Moore's fault in the same way you thought it was Clausen's, and I appreciate you clearing it up.

So if Moore sucked, Clausen sucked, Pike sucked, and BSP sucked, is it remotely possible that something else was going on where QB play was concerned?

[rayzor]

Ok, I'm sorry. I did infer from your statements that you didn't think it was Moore's fault in the same way you thought it was Clausen's, and I appreciate you clearing it up.

So if Moore sucked, Clausen sucked, Pike sucked, and BSP sucked, is it remotely possible that something else was going on where QB play was concerned?

it could very well be that none of them can really handle the job.

[Cavscout]

it could very well be that none of them can really handle the job.

Could be a combination of poor coaching and undeveloped skill.

Hopefully we will see improved QB play and a good QB competition this upcoming season (if there is one)