Getting to know the Jim Johnson 4-3

[Urrymonster]

I would think that our front 4 will look much better in a more aggressive scheme. If we get Fairley in the draft or a few DTs in free agency. Johnson is as good as any of Philly's and Hardy could end up being better as he gets his NFL body. And I think our linebacers match up well also. Our defense was underated because our teqm and offense were so poor.

I would agree with that, but you are also giving out DTs a shot in the arm to match them.

Johnson > Parker

Landri < Patterson

Hayden < Dixon

Brayton < Cole

Their depth also beat the crap out of ours... Behind Johnson the next highest pressure was 16

Brandon Graham (3 sacks, 7 hits, 27 pressures)

Trevor Laws (3 Sacks, 6 Hits, 11 Pressures)

Daryl Tapp (4 Sacks, 7 Hits, 19 Pressures)

Brodrick Bunkley (0 Sacks, 2 Hits, 9 Pressures)

[Mr. Scot]

Here's a kind of discussion you don't see on here often

Going beyond the specific techniques, I'd say one of the most important things to remember is what Rivera said about offense. Essentially, he wants units that are capable of doing whatever he needs them to do (defend the run, the pass, etc). That means smart, versatile players as much as anything else.

Touching on the philosophy, Rivera is like Johnson (and Ryan) in that he wants the defense to dictate to the offense rather than reacting. Some DCs don't think beyond "okay, what alignment do I call this time" but Johnson was looking to control the down and distance in such a way that the opposing offense's choices are limited, thus making them easier to stop.

The basic idea is kind of similar to what you'd find in the martial art form of Kenpo (or for the more cerebral, thinking three moves ahead in a game of chess). Essentially, it's a kind of thinking John Fox never did much of (preemptive adjustments and such).

[JawnyBlaze]

This is a good point, but I think the dropoff from Green to Julio/any of the FAs is greater than any of the other examples. The only "elite" receiver in FA is Vincent Jackson, and the guy is an alcoholic that's 1 slipup away from a year long suspension. And he held out for a new contract this year, he wants money we're not likely to spend on a risk like him. IMO, Green is the safest bet.

The thing is, each of the top 5 has a counter part somewhere.

Fairley has Mebane in FA and Dareus in the draft

Bowers has Quinn in the draft and Johnson/Hardy/Brown on the roster

AJ Green has Jones in the draft and Smith/LaFell/Gettis on the roster

Peterson has Amukamara in the draft and Bailey/Aso/Joseph in FA

DT & CB are the only positions where we absolutely HAVE to pick someone up, whereas we have young guys sitting on the roster at DE & WR.

That said, I am starting to think Gabbert might have a chance, despite him not being a #1 talent.

[frash.exe]

To Mr Scot's post:

I think based on the research and what weve seen from the eagles defense in the past is that this is not a read and react mentality like fox had. Rivera wants the defense to control the tempo here. It's a much different philosophy even if the technical function isn't completely opposite, and something that may make us look like a completely different defense and maybe even team this season

[panthers55]

Here's a kind of discussion you don't see on here often

Going beyond the specific techniques, I'd say one of the most important things to remember is what Rivera said about offense. Essentially, he wants units that are capable of doing whatever he needs them to do (defend the run, the pass, etc). That means smart, versatile players as much as anything else.

Touching on the philosophy, Rivera is like Johnson (and Ryan) in that he wants the defense to dictate to the offense rather than reacting. Some DCs don't think beyond "okay, what alignment do I call this time" but Johnson was looking to control the down and distance in such a way that the opposing offense's choices are limited, thus making them easier to stop.

The basic idea is kind of similar to what you'd find in the martial art form of Kenpo (or for the more cerebral, thinking three moves ahead in a game of chess). Essentially, it's a kind of thinking John Fox never did much of (preemptive adjustments and such).

That really is a key difference. Meeks said he was going to have an aggressive attacking run to the ball defense but especially this year we didn't do that very well. Zone defense's for example don't have to be passive if defenders aggressively attack receivers who move into their zone rather than stand around and wait to tackle the receiver after he makes the catch. Very similar to what Kiffin ran in Tampa and Chicago ran when Rivera was there. Now if you mix that with Jim Johnson's blitzing schemes and sprinkle in man and zone coverages, you can develop a very effective defense. Our zone broke down because quarterbacks had too long to throw and receiver could run until they found an opening.

Johnson in particular wanted to control first down stuffing the run or sacking the quarterback to set up a second and more than 10. That allowed him to dial up the pressure and be more aggressive as teams were forced to throw more often. As you noted he didn't want to just contain the defense as much as force them into predictable down and distance choices where he could limit what the offense's options were and what he had to defend.

[rayzor]

oh btw guys you know there are a lot of other 3 tech UT options that won't cost us the 1st overall pick and we already have an in-house guy that can work in a rotation just sayin'...

this is true.

we do still need to find that big fat NT, esp. when rivera and mcdermmott are wanting to run some 3-4 from time to time.

[rayzor]

Here's a kind of discussion you don't see on here often

Going beyond the specific techniques, I'd say one of the most important things to remember is what Rivera said about offense. Essentially, he wants units that are capable of doing whatever he needs them to do (defend the run, the pass, etc). That means smart, versatile players as much as anything else.

Touching on the philosophy, Rivera is like Johnson (and Ryan) in that he wants the defense to dictate to the offense rather than reacting. Some DCs don't think beyond "okay, what alignment do I call this time" but Johnson was looking to control the down and distance in such a way that the opposing offense's choices are limited, thus making them easier to stop.

The basic idea is kind of similar to what you'd find in the martial art form of Kenpo (or for the more cerebral, thinking three moves ahead in a game of chess). Essentially, it's a kind of thinking John Fox never did much of (preemptive adjustments and such).

i agree, although i wouldn't put fox into either category (dictating or reacting). he just did what he wanted to regardless of circumstances and outcome.

[Snake]

this is true.

we do still need to find that big fat NT, esp. when rivera and mcdermmott are wanting to run some 3-4 from time to time.

There are some good choices besides my man crush Ngata. I think if your looking for a DT this year your in luck. Also if the CBA is signed we will see even more FAs.

I would like to say though we will see more then just formations and schemes. I would bet the farm the players themselves will become more aggressive and strip the ball more effectively then in the past.

[scpanther22]

oh btw guys you know there are a lot of other 3 tech UT options that won't cost us the 1st overall pick and we already have an in-house guy that can work in a rotation just sayin'...

You could say the same thing to people wanting to take a WR 1st overall.

[Actionman0z]

i know we are focusing on johnson's version of the 4-3, but i could see us with elements of all the d's rivera has played or coached under. we could run some 46, some tampa 2,or the 3-4 he ran in san diego. rivera might even be creating the next style of d ala lebeau?

Rivera already said this in that radio interview that someone else posted. He said he will use elements from all the places hes been to best make use of the talent we have on defense. We will be fine.

[frash.exe]

this is true.

we do still need to find that big fat NT, esp. when rivera and mcdermmott are wanting to run some 3-4 from time to time.

i don't necessarily think we need a guy to take up blockers, but more to disrupt the interior line and get penetration

lack of interior pressure has killed us since like 06 and we've been incapable of collapsing the pocket. most of that was attributed to Kemo being utterly useless in that regard, and while he's being pushed back by 2 linemen, our DEs are missing sacks because the QBs just step up in the pocket. The big NT we get could be 320 but I'd think it's more important, especially in this defense, to be stronger and better conditioned than just big

[Snake]

i don't necessarily think we need a guy to take up blockers, but more to disrupt the interior line and get penetration

lack of interior pressure has killed us since like 06 and we've been incapable of collapsing the pocket. most of that was attributed to Kemo being utterly useless in that regard, and while he's being pushed back by 2 linemen, our DEs are missing sacks because the QBs just step up in the pocket. The big NT we get could be 320 but I'd think it's more important, especially in this defense, to be stronger and better conditioned than just big

I agree we may not need a 2 gap DT but just a bigger stronger guy. Still is it too much to ask to have both...

[panthers55]

i don't necessarily think we need a guy to take up blockers, but more to disrupt the interior line and get penetration

lack of interior pressure has killed us since like 06 and we've been incapable of collapsing the pocket. most of that was attributed to Kemo being utterly useless in that regard, and while he's being pushed back by 2 linemen, our DEs are missing sacks because the QBs just step up in the pocket. The big NT we get could be 320 but I'd think it's more important, especially in this defense, to be stronger and better conditioned than just big

That is true. Johnson didn't always have a 335 lb nose tackle over the center. He ran a more traditional 4-3 where the tackles were in the A gaps in a 1 gap attacking style. Guys like Landri are perfect for that as well as Fairley. We might be better off with guys in the 285-300 lb range who are quicker and more mobile. Particularly since at least 2 divisional teams (Atlanta and New Orleans) have attacked us by going to the hurry up offense to keep us from substituting for the nose tackle and putting in guys who can rush the passer. By having guys who can play for several series and can stuff the run as well as rush the passer, we minimize the advantages for the offense and are less one-dimensional on defense. Jordan Carsten was the kind of guy I have in mind. He was solid against the run and could split the gap and get pressure.

[rayzor]

i don't necessarily think we need a guy to take up blockers, but more to disrupt the interior line and get penetration

lack of interior pressure has killed us since like 06 and we've been incapable of collapsing the pocket. most of that was attributed to Kemo being utterly useless in that regard, and while he's being pushed back by 2 linemen, our DEs are missing sacks because the QBs just step up in the pocket. The big NT we get could be 320 but I'd think it's more important, especially in this defense, to be stronger and better conditioned than just big

thats true and kind of what i meant. legitimately take up a couple blockers. the push helps make that necessary. kemo was more or less just a blob on the field and did little more than just take two guys to push him back.