AJ Green or Nick Fairley

[bleys]

I disagree, I'd say not taking your team to the playoffs at all is a bust. Vick was solid, probably not worth #1 overall considering how long they were able to keep him, but hardly a bust. I wouldn't call Carson Palmer or Matt Stafford busts, and Palmer only took them to the playoffs once with no wins. Stafford is obviously young, but no playoffs yet!

well in that case...

Stafford could be head and shoulders above both of those guys if he could stay on the field...

[KJDaniel31]

What pattern?

The pattern that so far in the NFL exactly zero running QBs have had playoff success.

There are so few dual threat QB's that get a chance that it makes it impossible to make the assumptions you are making.

Going back to 2001 (as far back as Yahoo stats go, so you can easily look them up)

D. Culpepper, S. McNair, Q. Carter, K. Stewart, D. Flutie, M. Tuiasosopo, A. Smith (he ran alot in college), S. Wallace, B. Gradkowski?, T. Jackson, T. Thigpen, along with the mentioned Vick, Vy, Troy, Josh and The Golden Calf of Bristol. All that I mentioned have started at least most of one season, and either could not keep their job or could not bring about any playoff success. McNair is the most successful, at least he got to a SB.

For instance where is this 99% coming from?

The above mentioned list of running QBs with considerably PT in the last 10 years.

For every guy like VY there are countless Leafs or Russels.

No doubt there are pocket QBs who bust. I just wish I had one running QB who won a Super Bowl to compare to all the pocket passers who have. Then we could have a % for you....but right now, its pocket 100%, running 0%.

I can think of maybe 5 true dual threat QB's that have gotten significant playing time since I have been watching NFL (02). Vick, VY, Troy Smith, Josh Johnson (and that wasn't much), and The Golden Calf of Bristol. Maybe Alex Smith but that one is an insult to dual threat. I might be missing one or 2 but thats all I can think of.

See above, you missed alot.

Now how many Pocket Passing QB's have started a reasonable amount during that time and busted? I will admit I would rather have a Luck but unless your willing to bomb another season I don't see that happening.

A bunch, but thats because they are clearly more desirable, and teams pick them more. They win titles, and can understand and dissect defenses. Their ability to run means they never have to learn to do those things, and its just not possible to teach that later on. The Golden Calf of Bristol has possibly the toughest work ethic this side of Peyton, and he has a long road to go to be a top QB.

A guy like Newton has just as much chance of developing into a top NFL QB as Gabbert, Mallet, or Locker.

I wont speak for Mallett, but the odds just dont back you up on Gabbert or Locker. No running QB has ever developed into a top QB in the NFL.

They are all projects its just my preference to get a guy like Newton who can still help his team win do to his athleticism year 1.

Look, is it possible he is the first running QB who can actually win in the NFL, sure. But why would I want to go 8-8 for the foreseeable future when I know he has about a 1% chance of ever developing into a DECENT QB?

And besides considering how night and day Newton is compared to other dual threat QB's its like comparing Brees to Brady. Sure they both are damn good but they are two totally different QB's.

Everyone said the same thing about Vick (we've never seen this speed at QB before) and Vince (never have we seen this speed with this size at QB before) and it just didn't work out. Both teams who drafted them wish they hadn't.

If Newton does well in his interviews I would have no problem taking him #1.

Again I ask, why do you want to follow a system that has a track record of nothing but failure?

[KJDaniel31]

well in that case...

Stafford could be head and shoulders above both of those guys if he could stay on the field...

Exactly....its too early to call a 2nd year QB a bust. The point that people seem to be missing is that its not that pocket QBs never bust....its that running QBs have never won in the playoffs.

Just like NBA teams whose best scorer is their PG almost never win in today's NBA....you can list all the PF/C busts you want, but the fact still remains: if your best scorer is your PG, you will struggle in the playoffs.

[scarface]

if newton does well in his interviews i would have no problem taking him #1.

f*ck!!!!!!

[top dawg]

There have been mobile QBs that have had success.

Just because a "running QB", as you call them, hasn't had "success" in the playoffs up to now, doesn't mean that a "running QB" can't or won't have "success" in the playoffs in the future. To me this is akin to saying this or that player, or this or that coach can't win the big one.

[Panthro]

Rodgers is a mobile QB

[MaineManPanther]

The pattern that so far in the NFL exactly zero running QBs have had playoff success.

Going back to 2001 (as far back as Yahoo stats go, so you can easily look them up)

D. Culpepper, S. McNair, Q. Carter, K. Stewart, D. Flutie, M. Tuiasosopo, A. Smith (he ran alot in college), S. Wallace, B. Gradkowski?, T. Jackson, T. Thigpen, along with the mentioned Vick, Vy, Troy, Josh and The Golden Calf of Bristol. All that I mentioned have started at least most of one season, and either could not keep their job or could not bring about any playoff success. McNair is the most successful, at least he got to a SB.

The above mentioned list of running QBs with considerably PT in the last 10 years.

No doubt there are pocket QBs who bust. I just wish I had one running QB who won a Super Bowl to compare to all the pocket passers who have. Then we could have a % for you....but right now, its pocket 100%, running 0%.

See above, you missed alot.

A bunch, but thats because they are clearly more desirable, and teams pick them more. They win titles, and can understand and dissect defenses. Their ability to run means they never have to learn to do those things, and its just not possible to teach that later on. The Golden Calf of Bristol has possibly the toughest work ethic this side of Peyton, and he has a long road to go to be a top QB.

I wont speak for Mallett, but the odds just dont back you up on Gabbert or Locker. No running QB has ever developed into a top QB in the NFL.

Look, is it possible he is the first running QB who can actually win in the NFL, sure. But why would I want to go 8-8 for the foreseeable future when I know he has about a 1% chance of ever developing into a DECENT QB?

Everyone said the same thing about Vick (we've never seen this speed at QB before) and Vince (never have we seen this speed with this size at QB before) and it just didn't work out. Both teams who drafted them wish they hadn't.

Again I ask, why do you want to follow a system that has a track record of nothing but failure?

1. You have way to small a sample size to base your opinion on. Fourteen Qb's in ten years is very small. If there were as many Dual QB's as pocket passers then you would see there wins and playoff apperances go way up.

2. You act as if the reason the aftermentioned failed is because they were dual.

3. No top dual QB?

Steve Young

Donavan Mcnabb

Fran Tarkenton

John Elway

To name a few.

Just being a dual QB doesn't mean you wont be successfull.

[bleys]

1. You have way to small a sample size to base your opinion on. Fourteen Qb's in ten years is very small. If there were as many Dual QB's as pocket passers then you would see there wins and playoff apperances go way up.

2. You act as if the reason the aftermentioned failed is because they were dual.

3. No top dual QB?

Steve Young

Donavan Mcnabb

Fran Tarkenton

John Elway

To name a few.

Just being a dual QB doesn't mean you wont be successfull.

sometimes you all want to take one thing and make it an absolute statement...

KJD is simply saying, you all can rant and rave over having a "dual threat QB", but the numbers point to them being a bust more than success.. and on a huge scale of failure compared to success..

he also said (paraphrasing, but not really) "there is a chance Newton is the 1st to succeed on a large scale... but why are you so intent to take that 1% chance?"

so what are you all saying? you all keep asking the same questions he's answered already.. lol

Rodgers is a mobile QB

so is Big Ben and Freeman.... they are all passers 1st though..

[MonkeyMan]

New here and haven't read all 35 pages but.. I think Nick Fairley is the best option. Most receivers seem to have there break out years the second season it seems. I love AJ Green and think he is going to become a good receiver. You are seeing more and more receiver in the 6'4-6'6 range in college football now and they are dominating. If this was 5 years ago i could see him being picked #1 like Johnson was. As far as Newton or any other QB.. I do not think it is worth investing in a QB right now. I would give Clausen another year to develop and try and prove himself. If he works out good.. if not there will be a chance at Barkley or Luck next year I believe. Another huge factor will be if there is a rookie salary cap or not. If there is.. could totally change the draft.

[Cavscout]

If I had to choose between the top 4 players right now in order I would choose:

1-Peterson

2-Green

3-Bowers

4-Fairley

[MaineManPanther]

sometimes you all want to take one thing and make it an absolute statement...

KJD is simply saying, you all can rant and rave over having a "dual threat QB", but the numbers point to them being a bust more than success.. and on a huge scale of failure compared to success..

he also said (paraphrasing, but not really) "there is a chance Newton is the 1st to succeed on a large scale... but why are you so intent to take that 1% chance?"

so what are you all saying? you all keep asking the same questions he's answered already.. lol

so is Big Ben and Freeman.... they are all passers 1st though..

Im not advocating for a dual QB nor suggesting they are superior. And I certiantly don't want Cam Newton to be drafted by us. Im arguing his logic is flawed.

1."Just wish I had one running QB who won a Super Bowl to compare to all the pocket passers who have. Then we could have a % for you..but right now,

its pocket 100%, running 0%."

2."No running QB has ever developed into a top QB in the NFL..

These quotes are obviously wrong.

Second Look at the QB's he listed. Do you honeslty think the reason most of those didn't pan out is because they ran, and not that they were just bad QB's as a whole?

Also there are a significantly short list of QB's who run as opposed to stand in the pocket. Obviously they are going to be skewed by the sheer number advantage. He listed sixteen in the past decade. There were 13 QB's drafted in the 2010 draft.

[iiCaRoLiNa]

Steve Reed has just reported from a high league source that if there is no season due to lockout. The panthers Will get the 1st overall pick next year. Now wouldnt you like to get Fairley,Green or Bowers. And then We get lucky with Mr. Luck. As hard as it is to say this. I want a lockout! Bad!!

[Cavscout]

Steve Reed has just reported from a high league source that if there is no season due to lockout. The panthers Will get the 1st overall pick next year. Now wouldnt you like to get Fairley,Green or Bowers. And then We get lucky with Mr. Luck. As hard as it is to say this. I want a lockout! Bad!!

That's insane.

[MonkeyMan]

Steve Reed has just reported from a high league source that if there is no season due to lockout. The panthers Will get the 1st overall pick next year. Now wouldnt you like to get Fairley,Green or Bowers. And then We get lucky with Mr. Luck. As hard as it is to say this. I want a lockout! Bad!!

would be amazing