Cam Newton TD

[TheRealDeal]

I guess that's the point I'm making.. the decoy fade route isn't a read and I don't see how a receiver triple covered on the left is a legitimate read because his only purpose is to pull coverage, which is why the TE doesn't release from the line right away..

Side note: I've tried to spell legitimate a few times and need spell check every time.. holla!

For sure

[Jangler]

I'm just curious... what is the significance of this?

Because the last one was a false prophet, but this one is the real deal.

[bleys]

Again you confuse the point of the play with the read progression. If the receiver going left to right is open and newton looks to see if he is (first read) then he will throw the ball. On most plays though the safety will cover the deep receiver. By Newton running right the linebackers will flow right and the TE will sneak out and go against the grain. He is the receiver who is going to be open if things work like they should but he is the second read in the play. If the safety doesn't cover the deep receiver going left to right of course Newton will throw him the ball but you don't expect an obvious blown coverage. So the likely receiver is the TE but he is the second read given the progression of the play.

I think I see the point you're making.. aside from the goal of the play, you still have a progression...

I guess I'm looking at it differently by assuming the guy on the left will always be covered, since he needs to pull coverage for the TE to be open, which has to be the case with the LBers in the middle and able to swallow up the TE.. (and they appear to be in a zone so that receiver is covered anyhow)

[MWCarolina]

the play was what is was. i am not sure if it was his first read or not, but the fact is in that game he ran the ball 22 times, can't do that in the NFL and expect to play all season long, those 22 runs will have to be cut to below 10.

[bleys]

I'm just curious... what is the significance of this?

to talk about actual football and gain real football knowledge rather than the drama that exists day to day with the ESPNs of the world and 98% of what you find in this forum..

This is one reason I love NFL Network.. Playbook is one of my favorite shows when I get to see Mike Mayock enlighten me with how the game is played.. has to be one of my favorite people to listen to.

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

I guess I'm tripping up on what we are considering a read, because the only real read (to me) is the TE and perhaps Cam should have pump faked (to the guy on the right)

If you've got to go through the motions and the time to sell it to a defense that you might pass in a given direction, then its a read regardless of the ultimate intention as far as I'm concerned.

[blackcatgrowl]

I think I see the point you're making.. aside from the goal of the play, you still have a progression...

I guess I'm looking at it differently by assuming the guy on the left will always be covered, since he needs to pull coverage for the TE to be open, which has to be the case with the LBers in the middle and able to swallow up the TE..

Exactly. Had the LB dropped back to cover the TE the fade would have been blown. Cam checked for that first. Made a read that coverage was on the Receivers, and checked down to the TE for the Touch Down.

Here's an example of what can happen if you make a BAD read on almost this exact play. Drew Brees forces a throw AGAINST THE GRAIN to #85, TE - David Thomas. Picked by a Seattle Line Backer.

ANY TE Fade route is going to require a Read on coverage of your other receivers, ESP. if it's against the grain.

But no... Cam just runs designed plays to the letter. Doesn't make plays. You know... he's too stupid...

Further note: Tide Ends are usually NOT your players who can break coverage. Throwing to a TE who's covered is going to almost ALWAYS result in what happened in the video above, unless you're throwing to a beast like Tony Gonzales.

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

Again, hole in the line to his left by design. If the check down to the TE doesn't work as a final passing option, Newton can gain the four yards for a first down easily if not the touchdown with a little effort.

Really, great play call with good work from the whole team.

[blackcatgrowl]

Again, hole in the line to his left by design. If the check down to the TE doesn't work as a final passing option, Newton can gain the four yards for a first down easily if not the touchdown with a little effort.

Really, great play call with good work from the whole team.

Keep in mind, TheRealDeal's argument here is that Cam can't make a play develop with open receivers. He just runs scripted offenses and doesn't make reads.

The fact he can throw to a TE on a fade shows he has some great awareness and field of vision.

[bleys]

If you've got to go through the motions and the time to sell it to a defense that you might pass in a given direction, then its a read regardless of the ultimate intention as far as I'm concerned.

you're right.. the only thing I would like to have a better view of was where Cam was looking. Doubtful that will happen.. It looks like he took a second to look towards the middle of the field and that must be what you all are talking about as him making a read.. to me I'm not even sure the receiver on the left was close to where Cam was looking, but I can't really tell.. I'll just have to take y'alls word for it..

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

you're right.. the only thing I would like to have a better view of was where Cam was looking. Doubtful that will happen, but I'm not sold he really went through any reads. It looks like he took a second to look towards the middle of the field and that must be what you all are talking about.. to me I'm not even sure the receiver on the left was close to where Cam was looking, but I can't really tell.. I'll just have to take y'alls word for it..

Oh hell. Don't take my word for it. I'm watching the same thing you are lol.

[bleys]

Keep in mind, TheRealDeal's argument here is that Cam can't make a play develop with open receivers. He just runs scripted offenses and doesn't make reads.

The fact he can throw to a TE on a fade shows he has some great awareness and field of vision.

I guess you should show us a few highlights..

[bleys]

Oh hell. Don't take my word for it. I'm watching the same thing you are lol.

I have to take someone's word for it.. lol

the 1st view (actual play in real time) the WR isn't really in the picture and the 2nd view (replay) was too far out for me to tell where he was looking...

1st view I see his head down more.. 2nd view with it zoomed out gives the appearance he is actually making reads.. which I know isn't correct because of the zoomed in view..

I would like to see a different angle coming from the endzone so I can see his eyes, but I'm only nitpicking at that point..

[blackcatgrowl]

I guess you should show us a few highlights..

Here's a couple.