Justify why Cam Newton isn't worth #1 overall?

[TheRealDeal]

Your post is too long to quote but on those highlight videos you showed, he had 5 passes, 3 of them were behind the line of scrimmage on his first read. The 4th was an out pattern that was his first read in max protect (Also notice how he looks to the sideline to get the play adjustment, Luck makes that read on his own). The TD pass was a fake rollout to the right and throwback to the left, exactly the play that Whitehurst threw a TD pass on against STL. If you think he was reading the defense on the right, center, then left, you are crazy.

YOU need to watch more football, he's not accurate, his footwork is lazy, he doesn't carry out fakes, etc.

How many times are those swing passes going to work in the NFL? How many times do max protect, 6 yard outs on 4th and 3 work in the NFL? Nothing, NOTHING in those videos you posted show anything that translates to the NFL.

I've watched every game that's been on TV of him. I don't read analysts analysis because they are all paid and it is BS. Just how I wasn't sold on Luck, I'm not sold on Cam.

[blackcatgrowl]

Just how I wasn't sold on Luck, I'm not sold on Cam.

Well, with that statement, I understand where you're coming from. You're extremely critical. And to that point, anyone can find fault in any player who plays the game. No one is perfect. Hell, when Tom Brady throws a pick, you can argue his mechanics suck.

You're seeing one thing, I'm seeing another. I see a read and a check down, you see an errant pass. Why you've got such a negative take on the kid is anyone's guess.

However, his performance on the field agrees more with what I'm seeing IMHO.

The TD pass was a fake rollout to the right and throwback to the left, exactly the play that Whitehurst threw a TD pass on against STL. If you think he was reading the defense on the right, center, then left, you are crazy.

One thing about this... do you REALLY think they are going to run a play in the red zone, down by a TD, that has them throwing against the grain? Cmon man... that was a GD checkdown.

Here's another highlight of some needles.

[TheRealDeal]

His performance on the field has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We can't be seeing different things. What that video showed was fact. I'd love to hear you tell me how those weren't 3 swing/screen passes, how one wasn't max protect one read and throw, and how the other wasn't the same play whitehurst threw a TD on. Please, enlighten me.

He's dominated college football, but that doesn't mean anything. It's how well the skill set he has will translate to the NFL. It's about how he's been prepared to play in the NFL. Playing in a spread option, one read pass offense didn't do him any favors. He's got a lot of issues with his game. Like I said, his footwork is lazy, he often throws from his back foot, he's not fast enough to be a runner in the NFL, etc.

I'm not hating, these are just observations. I don't buy into hype, I make my own analysis. Just like I'm not as down on Locker as many people are, I'm not as high on Cam as SOME of you are.

[jtm]

I am absolutely done responding to anyone that has stated Newton stole a laptop. At least some of the other allegations have some meat to them. But NOBODY said Newton stole a laptop. Yet people keep posting that over and over. Why? Probably because stealing a laptop is much worse than any other supposed "character issue" Newton has, so their entire argument falls apart without this myth that keeps getting repeated over and over.

Go online and research for yourself. I read several articles that said he was arrested for larceny (stealing) and burglary (from someone's home). When police came to question him he threw the lap top out the window (I wonder why). He was booked for the crimes above and it appears that there was a plea bargain to receipt of stolen goods (lesser charge). If you have information that contradicts this, please post it.

The net net is innocent people don't throw stolen property out of windows and also don't accept receipt of stolen goods charges. Somehow all of this has been spun that he didn't know it was stolen and he is the victim. Again, if you find other data please post it because I don't have access to his arrest record so I am relying on google and newspaper articles.

[blackcatgrowl]

His performance on the field has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We can't be seeing different things. What that video showed was fact. I'd love to hear you tell me how those weren't 3 swing/screen passes, how one wasn't max protect one read and throw, and how the other wasn't the same play whitehurst threw a TD on. Please, enlighten me.

He's dominated college football, but that doesn't mean anything. It's how well the skill set he has will translate to the NFL. It's about how he's been prepared to play in the NFL. Playing in a spread option, one read pass offense didn't do him any favors. He's got a lot of issues with his game. Like I said, his footwork is lazy, he often throws from his back foot, he's not fast enough to be a runner in the NFL, etc.

I'm not hating, these are just observations. I don't buy into hype, I make my own analysis. Just like I'm not as down on Locker as many people are, I'm not as high on Cam as SOME of you are.

Ok. If you are going to dismiss the kid's accomplishments on a college field, in Division 1 NCAA football, in the SEC which is known for hard ass defenses...

Then what the hell can we use as a basis for drafting ANY college players?

Again... I'm not trying to insult you or anything man. I respect your opinion... but it's strawman logic. You can't say "Just because he did well in college doesn't mean poo, because he MIGHT suck in the pro's". That's true of ALL draft prospects.

If a GM had your views, and had to decide what to do with draft slots, he'd trade them all away for Free Agent pick ups, because NO ONE from college is proven in the NFL.

But they know young breakout talent exists, and unless you take a chance, you're not getting a shot at getting it.

Right now, we need a talented QB. Bad. Cam LOOKS like he can give us that. It's worth the #1 pick to find out IMHO.

[dimbee]

The only reason I can think of for why Newton shouldn't be the #1 pick is that he isn't Andrew Luck.

Just because he's the next best QB available in the draft does not be default mean that he should be the #1 overall pick

[PantherFanForLife]

I welcome a reasonable discussion on this subject. Please don't take my responses personally.

The reason why Cam isn't #1 on anyone's draft list is because sports writers often wrapped up in memes of the moment and if it isn't the "trend" to be hot on a player, they aren't, even if they are wrong.

EDIT...............

Fact is, franchises that win Championships are built around exceptional QB play. We need that first and foremost. I think Cam gives us that out of any current QBs available to us. If we don't take him #1 overall, we gamble on someone else doing so (Tennessee is interested in him at #8 overall).

I almost fell asleep watching that first video. This reminds me of the "Perfect Game" Clausen highlight videos from last year and we know how he actually turned out.

And Pickles looked better and more exciting in his college highlights than this guy!

[TheRealDeal]

I said you look at the skill set, not the performances.

Colt Brennan and Timmy Change also put up insane numbers. They don't have the skill set to be NFL QBs. I also never said Cam would suck, I said I wasn't sold yet. The SEC is overrated this year and there are plenty of numbers to prove it. I'm not discrediting his college achievments but they are in no way an indicator of NFL success. Chris Leak was beast mode in college.

The bottom line is you have to look at the skill set the player has, and how that will translate to the NFL. I see that he has accuracy issues but his numbers are aided by easy throws. You see 70% completions and say he must be accurate. I say he has lazy feet. You don't comment. I say he is in a one read offense. You show me a highlight tape that proves my point then say I'm wrong.

GMs don't care about college accomplishments. They want to know what you are bringing to the table in the NFL and what Cam is bringing is very very raw with a potentially high ceiling. If we could move down to the middle or later part of the first round he might be worth it. At #1, it could be the biggest reach in recent memory.

[blackcatgrowl]

I almost fell asleep watching that first video. This reminds me of the "Perfect Game" Clausen highlight videos from last year and we know how he actually turned out.

And Pickles looked better and more exciting in his college highlights than this guy!

Yeah, umm... pickles rolling over Hawaii Warriors, a low ranked 7-6 team, is NOT the same thing as Cam Newton beating the Alabama Crimson Tide, a 10–3, 16th ranked BCS team.

Again, do you folks even really know college football?

[PantherFanForLife]

Yeah, umm... pickles rolling over Hawaii Warriors, a low ranked 7-6 team, is NOT the same thing as Cam Newton beating the Alabama Crimson Tide, a 10–3, 16th ranked BCS team.

Again, do you folks even really know college football?

I know something like less than 5% of the players in college ever make it do the draft every year and then something like less than 30% of those actually make it in the NFL.

That's pretty much all I need to know.

[blackcatgrowl]

I know something like less than 5% of the players in college ever make it do the draft every year and then something like less than 30% of those actually make it in the NFL.

That's pretty much all I need to know.

Again... with this mindset, why should we draft anyone? Lets just trade them all in for Restricted Free Agent players and Straight Trades. fug it. We shouldn't draft anyone, cause they could all be busts.

/headdesk

[panthers55]

I said you look at the skill set, not the performances.

Colt Brennan and Timmy Change also put up insane numbers. They don't have the skill set to be NFL QBs. I also never said Cam would suck, I said I wasn't sold yet. The SEC is overrated this year and there are plenty of numbers to prove it. I'm not discrediting his college achievments but they are in no way an indicator of NFL success. Chris Leak was beast mode in college.

Brennan and Change played at Hawaii in the run and shoot and never played good competition unlike Newton who played more ranked teams this year than both of them did in their college careers. They were truly system quarterbacks with marginal talent.

The bottom line is you have to look at the skill set the player has, and how that will translate to the NFL. I see that he has accuracy issues but his numbers are aided by easy throws. You see 70% completions and say he must be accurate. I say he has lazy feet. You don't comment. I say he is in a one read offense. You show me a highlight tape that proves my point then say I'm wrong.

His easy throws included threading the needle mutiple times and hitting a guy in stride 40 yards down the field while scrambling to buy time. His accuracy is very good as he doesn't have to put extra zing or effort into a ball to throw a frozen rope. I would agree on the feet issue but given that is true, he can work on that. He hasn't had a coach to teach him about timed passing and footwork. It isn't he can't do it, he just is still somewhat raw. As for a one read offense, that isn't true. Is he as polished as Luck and can easily go through progressions? Not that well. He would need work and someone to mentor him to reach his potential.

GMs don't care about college accomplishments. They want to know what you are bringing to the table in the NFL and what Cam is bringing is very very raw with a potentially high ceiling. If we could move down to the middle or later part of the first round he might be worth it. At #1, it could be the biggest reach in recent memory.

He won't be available at 10. Now if we are okay with Mallett, Locker, Gabbert, Newton or whoever is available if we trade down- then we could very well follow that strategy. The question is whether Newton is the guy or just one of a number of guys who we would happy to get in the draft.

[PanthersGuy28]

We won't take him, but I wish we would, even though his dad would demand a huge contract.

He's huge, can run like a deer and is a far better passer than Vince Young and not to mention, Young would have been a very good player had it not been for the coaches screwing him up and his attitude. Worst case scenario: Vince Young (he's too good for a JaMarcus Russell comparison) and best case scenario a Big Ben that can run.

If JR would spend money we could get McDaniels as OC, if he can mold The Golden Calf of Bristol into a solid QB he can easily do it with Newton and get better results. Newton is so physically gifted.

[PantherFanForLife]

Again... with this mindset, why should we draft anyone? Lets just trade them all in for Restricted Free Agent players and Straight Trades. f**k it. We shouldn't draft anyone, cause they could all be busts.

/headdesk

No it means we should only draft the best of the best with our #1 pick. And since Luck is gone, QB should no longer even be discussed.

Next category we need or trade down. It's that simple!