Justify why Cam Newton isn't worth #1 overall?

[nagai]

the character issues should be a huge red flag to anyone that could potentially draft him. case in point, Mike Vick, Mike Williams, Jimmy Clausen etc.

that's not a soft reason at all. whoever you draft, you better make sure his ass won't set your franchise back for drafting him because of his character flaws.

also starting a season in a D2 school and winning it all is impressive (kind of) but isn't very #1 overall pick worthy. Armanti did the same poo.

I mean i'm not throwing the idea of drafting him out, i just provided you with reasons why not to take him #1 overall like you asked. pending he declares and he rapes the combines and poo, I'm all for it if he can help us win.

I agree, and character issues are much more important for a QB than any other position. There's a price that comes with the limelight and that's leadership skills. The laptop thing was NOT the only incident, don't forget about the under the table cash he supposedly received. There are way too many questions marks on this guy. Also keep in mind that we are not in position to say who we would draft, only who we think the panthers will draft. This organisation stays away from character issues like the plague, at least with their 1st rounders. I can't see how it would be any different with the 1st overall pick.

[Vagrant]

I also have a lot of trouble believing in this particular case that Newton had no idea regarding his father asking for money in exchange for his services. The fact that Newton could have delivered his son for X amount of money implies some kind of collusion on behalf of father and son there. Just because they can't pin an exact time and date that Cam Newton walked away with a wad of cash does not mean that he was innocent of the charges. There is far too much smoke to be no fire there. He had already proven at that point to have made some questionable personal decisions and to me the issue of pay to play is somewhat mild compared to the things he has been confirmed to have done.

[H2oproof]

I also have a lot of trouble believing in this particular case that Newton had no idea regarding his father asking for money in exchange for his services. The fact that Newton could have delivered his son for X amount of money implies some kind of collusion on behalf of father and son there. Just because they can't pin an exact time and date that Cam Newton walked away with a wad of cash does not mean that he was innocent of the charges. There is far too much smoke to be no fire there. He had already proven at that point to have made some questionable personal decisions and to me the issue of pay to play is somewhat mild compared to the things he has been confirmed to have done.

Does it really matter anymore?

[jma1287]

Cam Newton is being characterized with players that he's not all that alike to. The Golden Calf of Bristol, Vince Young, Armanti Edwards, Chris Weinke?

There is no question he has elite talent. I'll be surprised if he's not the most purely talented player in the draft. And he seems to have elite leadership abilities as well. Auburn has been on the verge of defeat on several occasions until Cam basically carried the team to victory. He also seems to be mentally tough based on his performance considering the NCAA investigation.

That said, based on the offense he plays in and a lack of experience, he's risky, but based on his talent level, he can be a one of a kind player. He's the only player available(and he will be) that will really be an exciting selection, but he's a huge gamble as well.

I am guessing the question marks about maturity, perception or reality, will be enough to scare away the Panthers aside from the other factors. He's an interesting prospect though, as evidenced by this 27 page topic.

[jtm]

Wow, people are saying he is an elite leader now. Elite leaders don't get arrested for burglary and larceny and get caught in pay for play scandals.

All of this talk is pointless, because JR will NEVER draft a player with this kind of history. If you are a Cam fan don't get yourself worked up to only be let down.

[PantherProfessor]

anyone who thinks Cam wont declare this year now that Luck is out is crazy. This kid is about the money, he isnt going to take a $50 mil gamble for a college degree.

[brianm23]

He's a great athlete, not a great quarterback. There is a difference, but most people see the ESPN highlights and scream like little girls wanting their favorite team to draft him.

Athletes posing as QBs dont' make it in the NFL. Sure, you might say "LOOK AT VICK", but out of the many years Vick has been in the league, he's only manage to put together one decent year? Furthermore, we don't know if that isn't due to it being Reid's doing more so than Vicks (see McNabb for further evidence) Vince Young, Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick, Donovan McNabb were all great athletes playing QB. Not a single one of them has a super bowl ring to show for it either.

I'll quote you a hall of fame QB who's won a Super Bowl. (in regards to "play making QBs) "Making plays doesn't win you a super bowl, running the offense does." - Steve Young

I will go down on record as saying this. Cam Newton will be a bust, and if he doesn't become a bust, I will buy each and every one of you on this board a drink of your choice.

[MWCarolina]

anyone who thinks Cam wont declare this year now that Luck is out is crazy. This kid is about the money, he isnt going to take a $50 mil gamble for a college degree.

yeah agreed, he WILL declare in my book. he knows that now he can be the first QB taken.

Cam Newton is being characterized with players that he's not all that alike to. The Golden Calf of Bristol, Vince Young, Armanti Edwards, Chris Weinke? There is no question he has elite talent. I'll be surprised if he's not the most purely talented player in the draft. That said, based on the offense he plays in and a lack of experience, he's risky.

actually he is like some of these players. he's like The Golden Calf of Bristol because he (sometimes) runs over players in the defense and plays in a very similar offense where sometimes he runs 12 or more times and he's like Young because i think Newton is about as fast as Young was in college. Chris Weinke and Edwards no. Edwards is faster than Newton, but WAY more raw as a passer.

The only way I want him is if we have either: 1) Donovan McNabb to mentor him...2) A REALLY good O.C./QB coach to develop him...3) Preferably all three

same here, i prefer all three, but having McNabb to mentor him and start a year (Even if they do go 5 and 11) would work magic on Newton's future.

I agree, and character issues are much more important for a QB than any other position. The laptop thing was NOT the only incident, don't forget about the under the table cash he supposedly received. There are way too many questions marks on this guy. This organisation stays away from character issues like the plague, at least with their 1st rounders. I can't see how it would be any different with the 1st overall pick.

yep true. Character issues are WAY important for a quarterback, that is part of the reason why The Golden Calf of Bristol was picked over Clausen. there are too many questions like you said and true, Richardson doesnt usually go after players with character issues ever since the Carruth incident and of course dealing with Smith.

I also have a lot of trouble believing in this particular case that Newton had no idea regarding his father asking for money in exchange for his services. The fact that Newton could have delivered his son for X amount of money implies some kind of collusion on behalf of father and son there. Just because they can't pin an exact time and date that Cam Newton walked away with a wad of cash does not mean that he was innocent of the charges.

yeah, it's very suspicious and i understand the innocent until proven guilty deal, but it's suspicious just like OJ Simpson and his wife, he's been proven innocent (disagree with the ruling), but still it's suspicious, especially since he had a book on IF he did it, but anyway, off the subject, but anyways, the point that was made above, i dont think Richdardson goes after him

[RealisticFan]

He's a great athlete, not a great quarterback. There is a difference, but most people see the ESPN highlights and scream like little girls wanting their favorite team to draft him.

Athletes posing as QBs dont' make it in the NFL. Sure, you might say "LOOK AT VICK", but out of the many years Vick has been in the league, he's only manage to put together one decent year? Furthermore, we don't know if that isn't due to it being Reid's doing more so than Vicks (see McNabb for further evidence) Vince Young, Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick, Donovan McNabb were all great athletes playing QB. Not a single one of them has a super bowl ring to show for it either.

I'll quote you a hall of fame QB who's won a Super Bowl. (in regards to "play making QBs) "Making plays doesn't win you a super bowl, running the offense does." - Steve Young

I will go down on record as saying this. Cam Newton will be a bust, and if he doesn't become a bust, I will buy each and every one of you on this board a drink of your choice.

I am going to hold you to your drink of choice statement.

Still Cam is a mid to late first round draft choice. The only way the Panthers take Cam is if they trade down. A team with the first pick takes the closest thing to a guaranteed contributor with that selection, be it WR (i know), D-lineman,...or whatever.

[Snake]

I respect the hell out of your opinion Mr. Scot. I've repped you tons for the things you've said in the past.

But I think you're missing the boat on Newton man. Auburn didn't have a cake walk schedule and to do the things he did this year, without any Division 1 experience, is simply amazing.

Your right and he seems to be a winner but the thing that hurts him the Most is he is in a Spread offense. No one would question his QB skills if he was in a pro system. I really cant blame them though cause look at all the spread offense guys that have failed.

[Snake]

Wow, people are saying he is an elite leader now. Elite leaders don't get arrested for burglary and larceny and get caught in pay for play scandals.

All of this talk is pointless, because JR will NEVER draft a player with this kind of history. If you are a Cam fan don't get yourself worked up to only be let down.

Payton Manning was accused of sexual assault in a joke gone bad. Even Brett Farve with the whole sexting thing, Ray Lewis Killed someone, and lets not forget the Steelers own Ben Rapistburger.

[MWCarolina]

He's a great athlete, not a great quarterback. There is a difference, but most people see the ESPN highlights and scream like little girls wanting their favorite team to draft him.

it's true, some people do that, just see the highlights. i seen some talent yes, but i also seen some things that he wouldnt be able to do in the pros.

[MWCarolina]

Your right and he seems to be a winner but the thing that hurts him the Most is he is in a Spread offense. No one would question his QB skills if he was in a pro system. I really cant blame them though cause look at all the spread offense guys that have failed.

not really failed as much as i dont think they have shown they were ready to start right away. The Golden Calf of Bristol ran alot vs. the Chargers and "I" am a fan of The Golden Calf of Bristol's. Young did alot of running in his rookie year and he didnt last all year and got hurt and missed time in his rookie year. people (like me) look at the spread offense that Newton played in (not Bradford's), they look at the rushing attempts and the designed runs and the option that wont be used in the NFL.

[twylyght]

Point blank, Andrew Luck is the only QB I've seen in this year's draft that I'd have no issue with taking number one.

Newton, Gabbert, Mallett, Locker...none of them have the complete package that Luck does. And if you want to use the number one overall pick on a guy, he better be the complete package. "Good enough" isn't good enough. Nobody in this draft is the equal of Luck, or even close.

They all have issues, Newton included, and not just the character thing (though that's big). There's also his mechanics, the system and questions about his ability to read defenses. Heck, the guy who runs the Sporting News draft analysis was saying he wouldn't even rate Newton as a first round pick (Russ Lande, and for the record, he's a former NFL scout).

And for the record, the Heisman's not a positive either. Heisman winners fail quite a bit (like our own Chris Weinke).

Right now, my choice for the #1 pick would be Nick Fairley. I could be convinced to accept A J Green or Patrick Peterson, but no other QB.

Ultimately, I'll support whomever the Panthers take, but there are some choices I'd feel a lot better about than others.

Mr. Scot, as usual you are squarely on point.

I would add this: Something that cannot be underestimated for the NFL QB (or almost any position for that matter) is football intelligence. For myself, the reason Luck was the next Peyton Manning was a CLEAR command of a complex offense and the ability to be a field general for his team. Moreover, how he regards his teammates on a national stage and CLEARLY defines good judgement in all aspects of life makes him the strongest QB prospect I have ever seen in the time I've watched collegiate football.

Getting back to the discussion on Cam, for me the comparisons are clearly more Ben Roth than anyone else. I think he has better mechanics than Ben had when he came out as well. That said, I would NOT take Ben NOW given the character issues that have clearly arisen. To have the number of things happen in the short amount of time for Newton to be in the spotlight is a serious red flag for me. I expect better for a team leader.

My support for Steve Smith has dropped precipitously as a result. My views on Beason is that his incident was a one-and-done deal. Everyone gets a pass... ONE. But if you're displaying fuzzy moral judgement on a regular basis then anyone with knowledge of that is outright retarded not to give that a serious look. Character is important. That is a fact that cannot be made any less true through any amount of arguing.

Another reason that I am hesitant to place a colossal price tag on a higher risk asset is durability. I think running QBs like Vick and The Golden Calf of Bristol are going to be more susceptible to injury given their playing style. You can't win ballgames if you don't see the field. I think Cam would be less susceptible to injury due to his LB frame, but he would still be rolling the dice, nonetheless. Ben has found that out in his career as well. Of course it is possible to be injured in the pocket, but the fact remains that your protection clause to be enforced by the ref runs out when you leave it.

Ladies and gents, the pros on the D-side of the line are faster and meaner than even the almighty SEC (which I hold in the highest regard of collegiate football) by a long shot. They have bad intentions for anyone we put behind our OLine (of which I have been very critical of this year). My thoughts are in line's with Mr. Scott that we should be taking a DT like Fairley out of the gate with Luck being gone.

There are NO QBs worth taking at the #1 spot this year. That is true for the majority of years in the draft. I would rather trade down to a desperate team and pick up another 1st round pick and wait out this year before taking any of the QBs available this year at #1. We can take a flyer on another QB later in round 1 as well. They'll be there.