Good lord, stop protecting Jimmy

[Carl Spackler]

Yeah. There's no real debate about it. He looked awful from the get-green and didn't improve much from then on.

Could he get better? Sure. Will he? Probably. Will he ever be an effective NFL QB? I doubt it.

Do I like to ask myself questions and then answer them? Yes. Yes I do.

^^^

a better presser than JR's.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Good lord, stop protecting Jimmy

Why not? The o-line did.

[Carl Spackler]

Jimmy didn't have 1.5 seconds to make a throw every time. Given time and the results aren't much different.....something you don't seem to realize.

Go back and watch thet last matchup between the Saints/Atlanta. Two of our division rivals. QBs face the same pressure Jimmy did often.....they just make plays despite it therefore it is never made into a huge issue.

So now we're comparing him to Brees and Ryan, just 2 of the league's 5 best QBs. He's never gonna be in their level, but has the potential to be a solid player if given a a good scheme to play to his strengths, and some protection.

[MHS831]

a)You are working way too hard with the excuses. There are plenty of guys who were drafted 2nd round or worse that played better than Clausen. AS ROOKIES? There were many more who struggled and later recovered. Just this year McCoy was a third rounder for a pretty bad team and looked better than Clausen. McCOY played fairly well, but the starting line was in tact. There are other examples.

Sure Fox was a lame duck coach but the players didn't quit on him and Clausen was given opportunities. Yes, he was, before he was ready for them. He was not effectively coached. If you have talent and it struggles but there is no improvement, then the coaches should take the blame and not shake their headsc) the offensive line improved over the year as evidenced by the running game getting better. Run blocking and pass blocking are different animals. Besides, you don't have to rely on Goodson to pick up blitzes in run blocking. What didn't improve was Clausen's performance over the year. He got some junk time TDS to look better statistically but he didn't show much improvement from first to second half of the season. I agree 100%, but am not willing to blame the rookie just yet.d) He also had a probowl receiver that he consistently couldn't get the ball to (Double covered a lot, and when was he in the pro bowl last?). He chose to throw the ball to Gettis and LaFell over Smitty so really it is hard to see that as anything but a problem of his own making. It is a problem, but not of his own making by any means. I think defenses knew the secret was to take Smitty out of the equation, let the rookies beat you if they can.

I think the stars aligned to doom his rookie year. That simple. We both agree he sucked, I am just looking at variables that threaten any QBs success. None were favorable. I think a rookie Montana or Manning would have struggled here.

Moore was good as a rookie in the last two games and impressive in 2009. Then he comes in and stinks it up. Did he suddenly get bad? No, the conditions around him changed.

Clausen will never be great, but don't quit on him. He had growth this year--slight, but there was improvement. However, as he improved, our frustrations grew, so nobody saw it.

HE SUCKED--I cursed him as much as anyone. I am just saying that if you give up on him, someone else will take him in a minute. Give him a year or two, put him behind starters and skilled WRs, and he improves dramatically.

[panthers55]

Yes, but one of the reasons he had to look away if he wasn't open was the little matter of a defensive lineman and/or linebacker barreling down on him after a lineman or Goodson missed another block.

No doubt the offensive line made mistakes and Goodson surely won't be mistaken for a great blocking back. But to blame it all on the line is going overboard. Clausen reminded me of David Carr this year. He panics when he sees pressure and run as many times into trouble than out of it. His only excuse is that he is a rookie while Carr was not. He needs to watch film and work on his skills in the offseason and come back hopefully better able to play.

[MHS831]

So now we're comparing him to Brees and Ryan, just 2 of the league's 5 best QBs. He's never gonna be in their level, but has the potential to be a solid player if given a a good scheme to play to his strengths, and some protection.

I am with you. Compare him to Carson Palmer. He was a pro bowler. When Palmer has a solid OL and disciplined WRs, he is the man. When they allowed his OL to leave during free agency and brought in a head case WR to go with the other head case WR, he started sucking. However, he is not a rookie. As a rookie here, Carson Palmer would suck.

Now for the comments about how Carson Palmer sucks. That would illustrate my point.

[Carl Spackler]

No doubt the offensive line made mistakes and Goodson surely won't be mistaken for a great blocking back. But to blame it all on the line is going overboard. Clausen reminded me of David Carr this year. He panics when he sees pressure and run as many times into trouble than out of it. His only excuse is that he is a rookie while Carr was not. He needs to watch film and work on his skills in the offseason and come back hopefully better able to play.

I'm not blaming it all on them. He had a chance to show more than he did.

[panthers55]

I think the stars aligned to doom his rookie year. That simple. We both agree he sucked, I am just looking at variables that threaten any QBs success. None were favorable. I think a rookie Montana or Manning would have struggled here.

Moore was good as a rookie in the last two games and impressive in 2009. Then he comes in and stinks it up. Did he suddenly get bad? No, the conditions around him changed.

Clausen will never be great, but don't quit on him. He had growth this year--slight, but there was improvement. However, as he improved, our frustrations grew, so nobody saw it.

HE SUCKED--I cursed him as much as anyone. I am just saying that if you give up on him, someone else will take him in a minute. Give him a year or two, put him behind starters and skilled WRs, and he improves dramatically.

IF we both agreed he sucked why are you working so hard to make excuses? Clausen has a 4 year contract and will be here for the future. Unless the new HC doesn't like him, he isn't going to be traded and will have a chance to get better and perhaps start for us or someone else. And at this point I don't think Hurney would let anyone dictate trading him.

But the difference between my posts and yours is that while you admit he sucks you are blaming everyone else for it. My take is that sure the line was a problem and he had 2 rookie receivers but he also made plenty of mistakes and was his own worse enemy. The line will be better when everyone is healthy and the receivers will not be rookies anymore, the real question is whether Clausen will improve as well and learns from this dismal year (assuming he gets the chance if we draft Luck).

[panthers55]

I'm not blaming it all on them. He had a chance to show more than he did.

Truth is, it is all water under the bridge and not worth rehashing all over. Like clausen I am ready to put this year behind me.

[bleys]

Yeah. There's no real debate about it. He looked awful from the get-green and didn't improve much from then on.

Could he get better? Sure. Will he? Probably. Will he ever be an effective NFL QB? I doubt it.

Do I like to ask myself questions and then answer them? Yes. Yes I do.

this pretty much sums it up..

[TheRealDeal]

So now we're comparing him to Brees and Ryan, just 2 of the league's 5 best QBs. He's never gonna be in their level, but has the potential to be a solid player if given a a good scheme to play to his strengths, and some protection.

LOL at Ryan being in the top 5 QBs.

[Carl Spackler]

LOL at Ryan being in the top 5 QBs.

My rankings:

1) Brady

2) Manning

3) Brees

4) Rivers

5) Ryan

Yours:

1) Moore

2) Moore

3) Moore

4) Moore

5) Moore

[TheRealDeal]

Ryan better than Rodgers?

[CRA]

So now we're comparing him to Brees and Ryan, just 2 of the league's 5 best QBs. He's never gonna be in their level, but has the potential to be a solid player if given a a good scheme to play to his strengths, and some protection.

LOL. No. The point is you can watch any QB in the division......they all face the same kind of pressue Clausen did. That is the point. The pressure isn't unique to Clasuen....yet you try to paint that as the reason for his failure. Every few seasons you see one or 2 QBs who get to sit back all day w/ little pressure....that ain't reality in the NFL. Yo don't just have to watch guys in our division....you can watch all the other rookie QBs that looked better than Clausen (and there are more than the big 2).

the issue all season was how Panther QBs reacted to the pressure....and that is why opponents brough it at a higher rate when they faced Carolina. Every team has plays where a Mike Goodson or a Gross whiffs on a play and the QB is doomed for a down.

Clausen was just flat out bad. Coaching, OL, etc. are not a means to justify how bad he was. Clausen made a lot of the offense around him look a lot more dysfuntional than they really were. Watch every snap BSP played and Moore played.....there is a noticeable difference. They were able to function at times successfully. Jimmy was the only one who had a healthy AND dangerous ground attack as well.