Why the Panthers were never consistently successful under Fox

[jtm]

The first drive last night sums up John Fox.

You are playing one of the best teams in the NFL

You are playing them at home

You have only two wins and are in a lost season

You get a decent drive and have 4th and short on their 32 yd. line

You punt

Punt goes in end zone for a net 12 yards

[jtm]

Next drive-

You have another good drive and get to Steelers 35 yard line again

You call time out to think about it this time

Is there really anything to think about

You give defense time to prepare

You call a freakin' QB draw on 4th and 3 with a nonmobile QB

[Cavscout]

Fox stuck with players like Foster and Delhomme way too long

[cheynehowell]

1. Fox plays to let the other team beat themselves, which works against the bad teams.

2. Following down years, the Panthers win a lot of games with a third or fourth place schedule.

3. Following up years, they struggle against the better teams.

4. This year is an anomaly because Richardson basically cut Fox off at the knees. Playing the NFC West, a third place schedule, and the AFC North, this should have been a bounceback year.

Discuss

Had no common courtesy to cup the balls while slurping Delhomme!!!

[CRA]

Everything about this team has been as good or better than 75% of the league on a yearly basis except for one key position...Quarterback. Fox is a good coach but his lack of foresight and inability to replace Delhomme with a good QB lead us to where we are. He could have had Flacco instead of Stewart and I'm sure there were other QBs he could have had as well but he chose to stay with Delhomme. That was his biggest problem.

No he isn't. Players just like playing for him b/c he is a nice guy and player friendly. He isn't a good NFL coach anymore....maybe for a brief windown early he was.

First drive of the game shows you why he isn't a good NFL coach. Punting on that 4th down when we were at the 30 something yard line. A good coach wouldn't punt...not with the league's worst offense. You go for it.

[HSCBandit07]

Well my point is that it seems like Fox has always had the arrogance to think that having a great defense and running game is enough. It's not. You need to have a good QB as well. You can't have a QB who you just ask not to lose the game. You need a QB who can make big plays regularly and keep the defense honest. This also coincides with the fact that our play book has always been far too simple. We are an easy team to defend, even with great running backs.

Like I said, Fox lucked out big time that Delhomme ended up being able to make those big plays for several years. Fox never actively tried to get a good QB though. And I know you can say Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the Ravens and he wasn't a good QB and all that, but that's a bit different. That Ravens defense was one of the greatest of all time. You're not going to be able to win like that year in and year out.

Don't forget Jamal Lewis was a huge part of that offense.

[cptx]

Next drive-

You have another good drive and get to Steelers 35 yard line again

You call time out to think about it this time

Is there really anything to think about

You give defense time to prepare

You call a freakin' QB draw on 4th and 3 with a nonmobile QB

They didnt call a timeout it was the end of the 1st quarter. The stupid wildcat on 3rd down killed that drive. If goodson makes his block on that qb draw it mighta worked.

[The Total Package]

I think that Fox is such a defensive coach that he has no understanding of a passing offense and he tells the OC his philosophy, but unfortunately our OC is Jeff Davidson (who should never be more than an o-line coach), so we end up with nobody to defer to and end up with a high school passing attack. I can't blame them for being hired and they are doing their best, but they are not qualified and they know it. At least they are loyal.

[The Total Package]

I honestly think a 16 year old madden player might be able to call a more effective passing offense.

[fjblair]

Fox's style of football is just outdated. Yes, having a great defense and running game is still huge in the NFL. But both of those mean nothing without a good QB. You simply can't win in the NFL without a decent QB. I wonder just how bad Fox would've been if Delhomme didn't turn out to be a very good QB for a few years there. Fox probably would've been fired a long time ago.

Fox has had some great moments (like the shutdown of the Giants in the playoffs - the greatest game he ever coached) but he has had way more bad moments and mediocre moments. The only thing consistent about Fox is his inconsistency and his stubbornness. People say that (besides this year) that it's amazing 7-9 was his worst season. As if this was some kind of accomplishment. Sure the Panthers have always been a competitive team for the most part, but that shouldn't be our goal to just be competitive. We need to be dominant.

Fox has had a team capable of reaching the playoffs 7 of his 9 years, but he only made it in 3 of those. 2002 and this season are the only years where I can understand not making the playoffs. Even with all of the injuries in 2004 there was no excuse to miss out on the postseason. And he's getting worse. 4 of the last 5 seasons now we've missed the playoffs. And our one appearance was disgraceful.

It's time for some new blood!

This would be the Truth.

[OneBadassCat]

1. Fox held onto Delhomme too long. Secondly he never brought in good enough competition to keep Delhomme sharp. I think Jake could have been a good player longer if Fox brought a talented guy in, or if he actually gave Moore a chance at starting. It looked to me that not only did Jake's skills diminish but he also got complacent with his play and started playing selfishly.

2. Vets vs. Young Guns. Fox routinely kept the better players on the sidelines because they weren't his Vet Guys. See Deangelo, Matt Moore, James Anderson, Charles Johnson, etc.

3. "Players Coach"- Giving guys off in TC after getting our asses handed to us by ARZ in the 09 playoffs. The only guy that deserves a day off is Steve Smith because he's god and the RB's because they're the work horses. Which also ties into #1 and #2.

4. DT. For being so defense oriented Fox never seemed to give a f**k to replace Kris Jenkins, arguably the greatest driving force in that 03 defense. If we landed a top DT Fox would have been resigned by now. He throws poo on a wall and hopes it sticks.

5. OC/Bad playcalling. You guys watch the games, you know what I'm talking about. You could probably call plays in a pick up game more efficient than this stupid poo. Constantly wasting 1st and 2nd down with stupid run plays and then put us in 3rd and long and make our QB look like a moron.

6. Not enough scheming and creating plays to utilize our players talents. Rather than call a good play Fox expects his guys to execute 100% and dominate the other man. To "Will" the play so to speak. Nothing wrong with that on occasion but it doesn't always work in today's NFL and now Fox has laid his own grave with it.

7. WR. IF we really wanted to we could have gotten Smith a #2 a long ass time ago. The FO was not aggressive enough to seriously approach this. Only now do we have guys capable of the job. Pathetic honestly.

8. Clock Management. Fox has been garbage with this for the longest time. It's really not that hard to figure out.

[pantherj]

Fox had a winning formula when DBs could physically knock WRs off their routes and disrupt their timing with light grabbing and pushing. The owners with good/great QBs pitched a fit as a result, and the 5 yard rule was created, preventing WRs from being pushed and grabbed beyond 5 yards. At that moment, JR should have fired Fox and found an offensive minded coach, not to mention spending high picks to try and find a great/very good QB. Now we're in deep sh!t, and Luck may or may not be the answer.

[SorthNarolina]

Fox had a winning formula when DBs could physically knock WRs off their routes and disrupt their timing with light grabbing and pushing. The owners with good/great QBs pitched a fit as a result, and the 5 yard rule was created, preventing WRs from being pushed and grabbed beyond 5 yards. At that moment, JR should have fired Fox and found an offensive minded coach, not to mention spending high picks to try and find a great/very good QB. Now we're in deep sh!t, and Luck may or may not be the answer.

That rule was put in 04 right?

So we should have fired Fox after he was one of the only coaches to take a team to the playoffs and then the superbowl 2 years from 1-15?

And at that time Jake Delhome was unrefined but certainly looked like he could be the guy. He lit up the playoffs.

And if I remember correctly they drafted a CB 1st round in 04 and then signed one of the top CBs in free agency in 05, so it's not like they did not recognize the need for a competent CB.

Also owners should do nothing but own. The only reason we suck is because JR stepped in and made non football decisions.

I don't agree with anything in that post.

[Davidson Deac II]

The 5 yard rule was put in in the 70's or 80's. If memory servers, they started enforcing it more strictly around 05.