Why the Panthers were never consistently successful under Fox

[Matt Foley]

1. Fox plays to let the other team beat themselves, which works against the bad teams.

2. Following down years, the Panthers win a lot of games with a third or fourth place schedule.

3. Following up years, they struggle against the better teams.

4. This year is an anomaly because Richardson basically cut Fox off at the knees. Playing the NFC West, a third place schedule, and the AFC North, this should have been a bounceback year.

Discuss

[E CaT PanTHer]

We've never been a dominant team under Fox. Even in 03 and 05, a lot of those wins were nail bitting victories or OT wins. John Fox doesn't play to win, he plays to not lose, and that's how he's been his whole career here in Carolina.

[unicar15]

Everything about this team has been as good or better than 75% of the league on a yearly basis except for one key position...Quarterback. Fox is a good coach but his lack of foresight and inability to replace Delhomme with a good QB lead us to where we are. He could have had Flacco instead of Stewart and I'm sure there were other QBs he could have had as well but he chose to stay with Delhomme. That was his biggest problem.

[Herb]

Fox's style of football is just outdated. Yes, having a great defense and running game is still huge in the NFL. But both of those mean nothing without a good QB. You simply can't win in the NFL without a decent QB. I wonder just how bad Fox would've been if Delhomme didn't turn out to be a very good QB for a few years there. Fox probably would've been fired a long time ago.

Fox has had some great moments (like the shutdown of the Giants in the playoffs - the greatest game he ever coached) but he has had way more bad moments and mediocre moments. The only thing consistent about Fox is his inconsistency and his stubbornness. People say that (besides this year) that it's amazing 7-9 was his worst season. As if this was some kind of accomplishment. Sure the Panthers have always been a competitive team for the most part, but that shouldn't be our goal to just be competitive. We need to be dominant.

Fox has had a team capable of reaching the playoffs 7 of his 9 years, but he only made it in 3 of those. 2002 and this season are the only years where I can understand not making the playoffs. Even with all of the injuries in 2004 there was no excuse to miss out on the postseason. And he's getting worse. 4 of the last 5 seasons now we've missed the playoffs. And our one appearance was disgraceful.

It's time for some new blood!

[Davidson Deac II]

I don't agree that the style of football we play is outdated. Fox's style of play is heavy run and efficient passing. Thats a style of play that can still win. The Steelers and Giants have both won Superbowls playing that way. But for most of the last few seasons, the efficient passing has been missing.

I think Fox's problem boils down to one thing. The inability to develope a passing game. During Fox's tenure, not one time have we drafted and successfully developed a Quarterback or a WR, or even a good pass catching tight end. Delhomme came from New Orleans. Steve Smith was drafted by Seifert. Moose was drafted and developed by Capers staff. One or two decnet free agents have been brought in, but thats about it. Rosario is not bad, but hasn't gotten much use. Because of this, our passing attack has basically been ineffective since the 2006 season. I am not sure if its an inability to judge talent, or an inability to develope and train players, or some combination thereof.

I will say this about Fox. If he does get a head coaching job next season with a team that already has an effective passing attack (for example San Diego), he might take them to the Superbowl. He is good enough in the other facets of the game to do so. But I don't think he will be able to successfully develope a passing attack.

[err456]

I will agree that Fox is a good coach that has let his stubborn ways make him a meer

.500 coach. Having a good def. and great running attack should be the goal of a good team. I think he gets way to conservative with a small lead and yes the passing attack has certainly contributed to his downfall. Landing a job with a team with a good QB is about the only way I see him being more than a .500 coach at his next job.

[Herb]

Well my point is that it seems like Fox has always had the arrogance to think that having a great defense and running game is enough. It's not. You need to have a good QB as well. You can't have a QB who you just ask not to lose the game. You need a QB who can make big plays regularly and keep the defense honest. This also coincides with the fact that our play book has always been far too simple. We are an easy team to defend, even with great running backs.

Like I said, Fox lucked out big time that Delhomme ended up being able to make those big plays for several years. Fox never actively tried to get a good QB though. And I know you can say Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the Ravens and he wasn't a good QB and all that, but that's a bit different. That Ravens defense was one of the greatest of all time. You're not going to be able to win like that year in and year out.

[ladypanther]

D COACHING: Did John Fox fire all his bullets Sunday in winning his final home game? The Panthers looked disorganized and lost when things didn't go their way on the opening drive. The good news here is, all the people you're mad at? They'll be gone in another week.

DARIN GANTT

The game is more complicated then Fox. He has no adjustments.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/12/24/1931666/grades.html

[carolinarolls]

sticking with Jake after 05-06 is the biggest mistake he made.

[jarhead]

We've never been a dominant team under Fox. Even in 03 and 05, a lot of those wins were nail bitting victories or OT wins. John Fox doesn't play to win, he plays to not lose, and that's how he's been his whole career here in Carolina.

I agree that Fox seems to play not to lose.Maybe alot of that is we really never had a kisk ass QB. He plays for favorible field postion but has really never been to execute on it on a consistant basis.I think that is why his play calling is so conservitive.I never have like his offensive play calling.He has always depended on the defense to make all the plays.

[littlebigman89]

I agree about hanging on to Delhomme. They never did anything to address the position while he was here either. They were unprepared for the day when he was gone. The NFL has become a QB league. The best teams have the best QBs. That's the one position the Panthers have never been great. The best year statistically for a QB was 1999 with Beurlein and they finished 8-8 because the defense was awful. Fox is way too conservative. I always hated the way they would get a big lead and he would go conservative on offense and defense and they would have to hang on to win. Perfect example was in 08 against the Saints. They had a 30-10 lead in the second half, went conservative, and had to kick a late FG to win 33-31. I'm glad he's gone.

[Davidson Deac II]

Its not just Delhomme though. Fox didn't develope any Qb's, or receivers. Even the pass blocking hasn't been very good. Fox wants to be able to pass the ball, he just seems be unable to implement or develope any aspect of it.

[Matt Foley]

He had really good years in 03, 05, and 08. Making a championship game and/or winning 12 games is tough to do. All three of those years came with softer schedules.

He had good years in 02 and 04 (considering the injuries and the 1-7 start). One came with a really easy schedule, one with a very tough schedule.

He had disappointing years in 06, 07 and 09. All came with more difficult schedules.

His style of football...where a punt is not considered a bad play...works because so many NFL offensive coordinators are trying to make names for themselves and they do stupid things. You tend to win the turnover battle against bad teams playing this way. Every time his Panthers beat my Rams, he made the Rams OC look like an idiot. The Rams were favored in most of those games.

But against the smarter and more talented teams, it doesn't work. They can still beat you. And when you play four first place teams after winning your division, or you play the NFC East, it bites you.

[Dpantherman]

1) John Fox plays not to lose. Hand him a lead, and he will play Fox ball and put it all on his defense. 2) John Fox cannot develop a QB. 2 of my biggest issues w/ Fox.