College QB stats, what does it mean for Panthers?

[theDIRTYcode]

So in your scenario a guy like Newton will be more successful than Luck who has better players around him and a much better ground game. Right?

So would a guy like Clausen be discounted since he has Golden Tate to throw to.

And would a guy like Edwards then be the best of all since he won three national titles with guys who weren't even drafted??

I think you must be oversimplifying this a little, LOL.

Didn't mean they were the end all be all things, just important. With Cam, you have to take the system into account. That spread option poo has proven not to translate to the NFL. Work ethic and intelligence are huge as well, and I would imagine Luck grades very high in both of those.

[Ricky Spanish]

clausen's college stats were padded by check downs. no one in college football had more checkdown throws than jimmy clausen did in his final season at ND.

[panthers55]

Didn't mean they were the end all be all things, just important. With Cam, you have to take the system into account. That spread option poo has proven not to translate to the NFL. Work ethic and intelligence are huge as well, and I would imagine Luck grades very high in both of those.

Auburn does run the spread but it isn't the spread option. There are many teams that ran a spread including Bradford and McCoy last year, but neither were a spread option nor is Auburn's this year. I saw one this week run it though- Georgia Southern. Very different from most spread offenses.

[Icege]

Stats don't tell you very basic things such as the quarterback's height and weight, arm strength, ability to read defenses and a number of skills necessary for a college quarterback to make the transition to the pro game. So to compare numbers out of conteaxt makes little sense unless you are predicting who would play best in college.

Look at Clausen and Luck. Clausen is 6' 3" and Luck is 6'4" but Jimmy's ball comes out low and sidearm- easily blocked - while Lucks' comes out much higher. Clausen is very slow releasing the ball while Luck supposedly has a very quick release. Clausen has difficulty stepping up in the pocket or hanging in there long enough for receivers to come clear. Luck is praised for good pocket awareness and being athletic enough to buy time in the pocket. And the list goes on and on.

All issues that impact a quarterback's likely success in the pros but things not reflected in a simple comparison of stats.

Steve Smith

[Cyberjag]

Releases can be relearned as can poor mechanics. But the root cause for Clausen's struggles are a poor awareness of the defenses, poor understanding of our offense and how to adapt to compensate by calling audibles, and poor accuracy. Those things are somewhat mental as well as physical.

Luck is likely smarter but it also comes down to how quickly he processes information and can sift through the possibilities. Something Clausen hasn't show much of lately.

I wish instead of a wonderlic they would test for speed of mental process and analytical thinking ability which seems much more in demand with a quarterback than at some other positions.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at. Clausen has the desire and drive, and I would argue that he has all the physical tools he needs to be successful. He certainly has the background and training. The question is whether he has what it takes between the ears.

Even if he's not a genius, he could still be successful but that requires a good offensive coach.

[Cyberjag]

Steve Smith

Steve Smith's a receiver. QB is a way more mental position.

[CatMan72]

About the same as it meant to the Chargers when they drafted Ryan Leaf...

[FuzzyPanther]

Case in point--compare The Golden Calf of Bristol's stats to all of the above. He buries them, and he did it against SEC competition.

We have not had a clear look at The Golden Calf of Bristol compared to Clausen or Bradford at this point, so I don't know how much that really means at this point... Much like I have not had a clear look at Luck against NFL competition. I could make just as good a case for The Golden Calf of Bristol being a great QB as I could for Luck, we just haven't got to see them play at the NFL level. I'm just trying to use objective information that we have available, and see if we can reach some conclusions. I haven't seen anything that would make me believe that Luck is going to be any better than Clausen, but your point is well-taken.

Look at Clausen and Luck. Clausen is 6' 3" and Luck is 6'4" but Jimmy's ball comes out low and sidearm- easily blocked - while Lucks' comes out much higher. Clausen is very slow releasing the ball while Luck supposedly has a very quick release. Clausen has difficulty stepping up in the pocket or hanging in there long enough for receivers to come clear. Luck is praised for good pocket awareness and being athletic enough to buy time in the pocket. And the list goes on and on.

Scouting reports complained of Clausen taking a "wind up" on longer throws, but most say he can make all the throws an NFL QB is required to make. He looks to throw like a girl to me, which is why I have no idea how to evaluate QB's.

Clausen Scouting report

On the Move: Good footwork in the pocket, able to shift in any direction to evade rushers and create space and find a passing lane in which to throw. Keeps eyes downfield when pressured out of the pocket, and throws well running to his left or right. Able to run for first downs.

Are the skills that Luck is reported to have, which, up to this point, have not produced any more than Clausen did at the same competition level, going to launch him to be a great QB, worthy of the #1 overall pick in the draft?

clausen's college stats were padded by check downs. no one in college football had more checkdown throws than jimmy clausen did in his final season at ND.

From where do you have this information? The scouts seem to disagree.

Clausen Scouting report

Reading Defenses: Regularly looks off safety before going to his intermediate or deep out. Tended to bird-dog his favorite receiver in 2009, however. Takes too many chances downfield, eschewing his underneath options and trusting his receivers but not acknowledging safety help over the top.

[theDIRTYcode]

Auburn does run the spread but it isn't the spread option. There are many teams that ran a spread including Bradford and McCoy last year, but neither were a spread option nor is Auburn's this year. I saw one this week run it though- Georgia Southern. Very different from most spread offenses.

While not exactly Urban Myer's spread, it's pretty damn close. Malzahn uses simple schemes and runs them at a "break neck" pace. He reminds me a lot of how Vince Young was at Texas.

[LiQuiD]

We have not had a clear look at The Golden Calf of Bristol compared to Clausen or Bradford at this point, so I don't know how much that really means at this point... Much like I have not had a clear look at Luck against NFL competition. I could make just as good a case for The Golden Calf of Bristol being a great QB as I could for Luck, we just haven't got to see them play at the NFL level. I'm just trying to use objective information that we have available, and see if we can reach some conclusions. I haven't seen anything that would make me believe that Luck is going to be any better than Clausen, but your point is well-taken.

Scouting reports complained of Clausen taking a "wind up" on longer throws, but most say he can make all the throws an NFL QB is required to make. He looks to throw like a girl to me, which is why I have no idea how to evaluate QB's.

Clausen Scouting report

On the Move: Good footwork in the pocket, able to shift in any direction to evade rushers and create space and find a passing lane in which to throw. Keeps eyes downfield when pressured out of the pocket, and throws well running to his left or right. Able to run for first downs.

Are the skills that Luck is reported to have, which, up to this point, have not produced any more than Clausen did at the same competition level, going to launch him to be a great QB, worthy of the #1 overall pick in the draft?

From where do you have this information? The scouts seem to disagree.

Clausen Scouting report

Reading Defenses: Regularly looks off safety before going to his intermediate or deep out. Tended to bird-dog his favorite receiver in 2009, however. Takes too many chances downfield, eschewing his underneath options and trusting his receivers but not acknowledging safety help over the top.

Where the fug is this guy they describe in the scouting reports, and who's putting on the #2 jersey on Sundays for the Panthers? They can't be the same guy....

[FuzzyPanther]

Where the fug is this guy they describe in the scouting reports, and who's putting on the #2 jersey on Sundays for the Panthers? They can't be the same guy....

Agreed. With that in mind, what makes Luck the answer to our QB woes?

[Actionman0z]

I think Luck's mindset is what we want out of a NFL QB. Clausen will always have that stigma of being that golden boy, cocky, flashy, better than everyone feel no matter what. Luck is a Stanford nerd, kinda dorky, very brainy, but at the same time has "it". Correct me if I am wrong, but Clausen is 6'2", throws side armed and weighs barely over 200 lbs. Luck is 6'5" weights 235, and throws over the top. Luck has it. Clausen does not. .

[Ricky Spanish]

I think Luck's mindset is what we want out of a NFL QB. Clausen will always have that stigma of being that golden boy, cocky, flashy, better than everyone feel no matter what. Luck is a Stanford nerd, kinda dorky, very brainy, but at the same time has "it". Correct me if I am wrong, but Clausen is 6'2", throws side armed and weighs barely over 200 lbs. Luck is 6'5" weights 235, and throws over the top. Luck has it. Clausen does not. .

clausen's a chub chub, he weighs 222, the same as tony pike.

[Ricky Spanish]

From where do you have this information? The scouts seem to disagree.

Clausen Scouting report

Reading Defenses: Regularly looks off safety before going to his intermediate or deep out. Tended to bird-dog his favorite receiver in 2009, however. Takes too many chances downfield, eschewing his underneath options and trusting his receivers but not acknowledging safety help over the top.

ok i may have exagerated, but he threw a ridiculous amount of short high percentage passes throughout his last year at ND that completely padded his stats.

Clearly these are impressive numbers. However, I have a theory that puts some context to the matter. Amongst my previous concerns with Clausen has been his lack of range in the passing game. Against Stanford, he registered thirty pass attempts. Of these, thirteen were short slants to the left or right to one of Michael Floyd or Golden Tate. Two were shovel passes and two were check down's through the middle. Clausen threw five screen passes.

The remaining eight attempts were a combination of a failed hail mary to end the game, three deep corner routes, a pass thrown away, an end around trick, a fade left and a 20 yard attempt down the middle.

I've noticed that a lot of throws made by Clausen are outside slants to Floyd or Tate. Although Clausen doesn't play behind the greatest offensive line, he did throw to two of the best receivers in college football who simply outclassed the Stanford defensive backs in this game (they scored all five passing TD's). Nearly 50% of his passes were this high percentage outside slant, quickly thrown off the snap to one of the talented receivers in a lot of space. 73% of his throws were ten yards or shorter. The stats for the year are very good, but when you're throwing a lot of high percentage throws for short yardage in a quick hitting offense - it's no surprise. You're going to complete passes, you're not going to throw interceptions.

But of more concern is that Clausen will become predictable and easy to gameplan if he can't make 'all the throws'. A top ten quarterback needs to be able to get the ball downfield as well as show great short range accuracy.

Before I go onto discussing his deep passes, I want to briefly talk about mechanics. Clausen's throwing action is quite slingy with a low side arm release. Clausen is listed at 6'3". He doesn't look 6'3" on tape, but watching him stood next to 6'5" center Eric Olsen and 6'1" safety Kyle McCarthy for the coin toss - I think it's accurate. However, the ball is being released at around shoulder height. Compare this to Ryan Mallett, who at 6'7" releases the ball well over his head. The advantage of this is you avoid a lot of tipped passes. Mark Sanchez had a similar issue with a slingy release (although not as exaggerated as Clausen) and he made a big effort to show he'd corrected this at the USC pro-day last year.

In one Notre Dame game, I actually watched Clausen throw the ball into the back of his own center's helmet. He has a lot of passes tipped because the ball struggles to get over the scrum of lineman in front of him. Against Stanford, he again had a tipped pass loop into the air - fortunately an offensive lineman scooped it up before the interception could be completed.

To compensate for the low release point, when Clausen throws deep he tries to put a lot of air on the ball. In the Stanford game, of the three deep corner routes thrown by Clausen - two were under thrown and one had to be batted down by Michael Floyd to avoid an interception. The ball looped up high into the air in a floaty manner, with little zip or torque. This is either evidence of a lack of arm strength or a technique problem, or possibly a combination of both. During the year, a lot of his deep passes are 'up for grabs' because of this. I just don't see a great passing range when I scout Jimmy Clausen. A lot of high percentage short throws - which he does well throwing to good receivers. When he's asked to throw downfield or be a little bit creative, he's just not shown he can do it at a NFL level.

When I take all this into account, I ask myself not whether I think Pete Carroll and the Seahawks would take him, but where I think a prospect with his skill set should go in the draft. My answer would be - second round. Late first round maximum. In a good team with good receivers and a running game, he could have some success quickly. He doesn't, however, look like the type of prospect who will single handed lead the St. Louis Rams out of the wilderness as a first overall pick.

http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/jimmy-clausen-debate.html

damn that guy was completely right about clausen