Clausen - Personal Beef with Smitty Affecting His Play?/Overall Improvement?

[Proudiddy]

It would be great for the Panthers if Clausen could be 'the guy' as there are many holes to fill on this team.

Honestly, it was nice to see the kid smile today. It was the first time I could remember the camera showing a smile on his face.

It is clear the game hasn't slowed down for him yet and he has yet to play to win vs. avoiding losing. How he survives a very angry, still in the playoff hunt, Steelers team Thursday night will be interesting.

One thing that bothers me about this board, is talking about 'Madden' and 'reading books'; I would think it would be a lot different playing a video game and reading than to have 300+ lb men wanting to kill you, and oh yeah, 3 seconds to read the field and make the play. If playing QB in the NFL were so easy, a lot of people on this board could do it. There is reading in comfort, and doing in real life, two very different things.

I get that, but again, I'm saying that in a joking/exaggerated manner, but my point remains the same. What is that old saying, confidence is in knowing you prepared? Something like that... If you study enough tape, you pick up the things he isn't getting, regardless of experience. I know from experience (basketball). It is totally different on the field when you're under pressure and in danger... But, when you've seen the same thing before, and studied it, you think about how you'd do it differently, so when you see it again, you should react differently. He's not.

[neverlosethefeeling]

Any kind of speculation as to what is going on in the locker room is complete bullshit. No one here knows what's going on so stop acting like it.

You don't have to speculate what's going on in the locker room. I'm talking about the things that are public--the comments to the media dating all the way back to training camp when Smitty decided he wasn't going to help the receivers unless they came to him to stroke his ego. And even more recently the very public tirade about Clausen. I'm talking about how demonstrative he gets every time he's open and Clausen doesn't see it. These are not the sorts of things that help anyone involved--especially young receivers, a young quarterback and an overall young team. Just because he's a good player doesn't mean he's excused from being a good teammate and that should go for ANYONE who puts on a Panther uniform. We all know how high up character is on JR's priority list and Smitty has probably been the one guy that throughout his career has been able to get away with things just because of who he is.

[neverlosethefeeling]

Yes, I can put expectations on him. Bradford is doing more with less. McCoy is doing more with less. Clausen came in knowing the offense and has been the worst among all of them, considering what an advantage that should be. I've compared their stats and what their offenses were designed for, and Clausen's numbers shouldn't be as poor as they are. Additionally, how many games has Clausen started? 7? 8 now? Well, the running game has been good-great for the last 4 games at least.

I didn't neglect your "point" about Smitty, I just threw that question out there for the discussion, and in regards to what I was speaking to in my most recent posts within the thread, it was irrelevant as I was expounding on what Clausen is doing fundamentally that is wrong... Smitty bitching at him has nothing to do with him not picking up a blitz pre-snap or not throwing it to Goodson while he's wide open.

I can't name any guys in STL or Cleveland that may do what Smitty does, mainly because they don't have any guys that have a reason to act the way Smitty does, other than Steven Jackson. People are trying to vilify Smitty to defend Clausen, and again, it doesn't work. Did you know Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice and had to be pulled off of him during their championship years? That' aside, just saying, he still produced. Clausen is a 20-something year old man, I'm sure he's dealt with assholes on a team somewhere along the line... Man up. Like John Lynch said today, if you want to shut him up and prove him wrong, go out and PLAY GOOD.

Clausen is bringing that on himself. And yes, Smitty may have stuck up for Jake early on during his struggles, but see how he handled it towards the end when Jake couldn't get him the ball anymore either. And Smitty got along fine with Moore to start this season... Why? Because he was playing to win, not playing to avoid mistakes. I don't feel bad for Clausen in that sense. And btw, before some of you Clausen-ites continue to paint him as a victim, somebody on here was at the game last week and Smitty was saying something to him, probably in a demonstrative manner, and Clausen told him to STFU. He's not some innocent victim of abuse. If he wants Smitty off his back, give him the ball when he's open, quit doing stupid poo that other rookies aren't doing, and play like a PRO.

I think you're down-playing the pressure a guy like Steve Smith can put on someone like Clausen. It's hard enough playing against other teams in the NFL, you don't need to be playing against your own as well. So I think you're down-playing as much as you say Clausen-ites are villifying. And I still maintain my opinion that Steve could be a much better teammate and leader and a much bigger help then he's been.

I still think that pinning this thing on Clausen by appealing to the accomplishments of other rookies is a mistake. So is dismissing the horrid play of our offensive line and consequently, our running backs for a huge majority of the season. And acknowledging those things (Steve being a jerkoff, bad offensive line play and no running game) doesn't equate to defending Jimmy Clausen. It's simply pointing things out for what they are and realizing that no one piece of this puzzle is independent of the other.

I see we're not going to get anywhere, though. I've been reading your posts long enough to know you're no Clausen fanboy. As long as I've spoken my peace, I'm content to let this go and hope, for both of our sakes, that the Panthers can turn this thing around sooner rather than later. I hate watchin this crap just as much as the next guy.

[Proudiddy]

I think you're down-playing the pressure a guy like Steve Smith can put on someone like Clausen. It's hard enough playing against other teams in the NFL, you don't need to be playing against your own as well. So I think you're down-playing as much as you say Clausen-ites are villifying. And I still maintain my opinion that Steve could be a much better teammate and leader and a much bigger help then he's been.

I still think that pinning this thing on Clausen by appealing to the accomplishments of other rookies is a mistake. So is dismissing the horrid play of our offensive line and consequently, our running backs for a huge majority of the season.

I see we're not going to get anywhere, though. I've been reading your posts long enough to know you're no Clausen fanboy. As long as I've spoken my peace, I'm content to let this go and hope, for both of our sakes, that the Panthers can turn this thing around sooner rather than later. I hate watchin this crap just as much as the next guy.

I appreciate that nltf, although I don't like the implication of "I've been reading your posts long enough..." lol. But, regardless, I agree Smitty can be a better teammate, but in dealing with similar situation in athletics, I understand his frustration and I understand what Clausen can be feeling too, but like I said, he's got to put on the ear muffs and break himself down and fix it.

I guess it depends on how people want to frame it. Either we're blaming Smitty's impact on his mental state and therefore playing ability, the OL, playcalling, etc. Or in my case, you recognize those things but don't accept them as the true ROOT of his problems. It's been discussed before that the OL play goes both ways, in terms of the OL can make a good QB look bad, or a good QB can make a bad-average OL look good.

I'm viewing Clausen from a half-full glass and as much negative as I see in his individual performance, I have a hard time understanding how people are still sticking up for what he's continue to doing, when I KNOW that he could have already made much more improvement.

But, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I do thank you for a fairly decent, but respectful argument. I wanted him to work, but I'm almost 100% convinced now he won't, even later down the line. I'm just of the line of thought that we know he's not it, so we cut our losses with that move and look forward.

[Pox 08]

i think if Fox and company were telling to not make those throws then Smitty wouldn't have blown up today.....and you wouldn't have seen that sideline shot of Fox looking sick to his stomach after he threw it away last week.

I think they're telling him to make as few mistakes as possible more than I think they're literally telling him not to make those throws. No doubt some of it is his fault. He plays like we have absolutely no one that can teach him how to be a professional qb. Which I'm starting to realize, we don't (coaching wise).

When I saw him do that 20+ yard quick lob to Smith (incomplete), I thought it was a sign of things to come. It was the first time we saw him throw the ball down the field, over 15 yards, without taking 5+ seconds to launch it.

[Razzy]

Given Clausen a chance under a positions coach capable of developing a QB.

[Punisher]

When Delhomme was the qb, and he didnt get the ball to Smith early. Smith would go into the same tirades that you see now. I'm just saying this because I'm not sure if some of you guys think this is new behavior.

Smitty always has been a diva. Sure he plays with great emotion, but so do Chad and TO. But they are also divas.

[neverlosethefeeling]

I appreciate that nltf, although I don't like the implication of "I've been reading your posts long enough..." lol. But, regardless, I agree Smitty can be a better teammate, but in dealing with similar situation in athletics, I understand his frustration and I understand what Clausen can be feeling too, but like I said, he's got to put on the ear muffs and break himself down and fix it.

I guess it depends on how people want to frame it. Either we're blaming Smitty's impact on his mental state and therefore playing ability, the OL, playcalling, etc. Or in my case, you recognize those things but don't accept them as the true ROOT of his problems. It's been discussed before that the OL play goes both ways, in terms of the OL can make a good QB look bad, or a good QB can make a bad-average OL look good.

I'm viewing Clausen from a half-full glass and as much negative as I see in his individual performance, I have a hard time understanding how people are still sticking up for what he's continue to doing, when I KNOW that he could have already made much more improvement.

But, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I do thank you for a fairly decent, but respectful argument. I wanted him to work, but I'm almost 100% convinced now he won't, even later down the line. I'm just of the line of thought that we know he's not it, so we cut our losses with that move and look forward.

Haha I didn't mean it in a bad way, trust me. Just sayin' I know you aren't a Clausen apologist.

Cheers, mate!

[philp]

Yes, I can put expectations on him. Bradford is doing more with less. McCoy is doing more with less. Clausen came in knowing the offense and has been the worst among all of them, considering what an advantage that should be.

clausen played for carolina last year?

[philp]

the rams and browns are better than we are dude. clausen blows no doubt, but so does our whole team. we are easily the worst team in the league and that hasn't been questioned in weeks. there is no reason to compare him bradford or mccoy. it doesn't prove anything.

[davos]

My favorite part of the game minus the King TD: Smith being thrown to, resulting in both an incompletion but a huge cheer from the crowd for simply being part of an offensive play.

...Then of course the one's he actually caught followed by a nice crowd response

edit: wrong thread...but its sorta applicable

[ThaJackal]

I didn't like Pickles' tude when he first came here (thought he was a little bitch) and thought M&M would be the man, but there is no way in hell that you can't pin this season's shortcomings on the OL. This OL is poo and that needs to be a major focus of the offseason. I also don't think that Luck is the only answer. Put him back there now and he'd poo himself quicker than a newborn. Hell, put Brady/Manning back there and they wouldn't look any better. I remember when the Colts were in town about 2 yrs ago. The D-line brought it in the first half and got in Manning's face frequently. He looked like poo that half because he was getting knocked down and had no time (and IIRC went into the half down). However, as with all of Carolina's games, adjustments weren't made and the Colts were victorious. Point is, when the OL ain't doing their job, you will not win (in this case the Colts OL was getting owned until adjustments were made). Not saying that Pickles is the man, but when the OL is poo you can't overlook it. They can draft Luck, but it will all be for naught if the OL ain't fixed.

[Cavscout]

I think Jimmy may have peaked today. Expect a sharp decline starting Thursday.

I agree...after all it was the Cardinals he was playing against

I want to see him play well against a Steeler defense that is the best in the league

[mav1234]

man if he doesn't decline on Thursday my opinion of him will likely peak. the steelers are going to destroy us. seriously.

he wasn't good today, but he was acceptable for a Panthers QB given this season. He WAS trying to get Smith the ball MORE than he usually does, which is good. He needs to see him more often and get the ball to him, but hell, at least he stood in there and made SOME throws and at least he got a passing TD.

meh. I think Clausen sucks, but I think we need to stop grasping at straws for why.

also: browns & rams > us. by far. holy crap by far.