Clausen - Personal Beef with Smitty Affecting His Play?/Overall Improvement?

[Proudiddy]

You know i was planning on starting a counter argument thread of the previous

"Who wants to defend Clausen now? named

"Who wants to badmouth and talk poo even after he plays decent? But honestly its the same old tired crowd.

Yeah, that would be absolute genius! After winning his first out of 7 or 8 games and looking average for the first time out of those games!!!

Awesome.

You're right, we're all idiots.

[CRA]

I think it's more about Fox and company probably telling him to play it safe , and a lack of trust in his Oline. At this point, it seems that the Oline doesn't trust him and he doesn't trust them.

I like the kid, I think he has all the tools to eventually be a great qb in the league. I'd like to see what he evolves into with an offense style built around him.

i think if Fox and company were telling to not make those throws then Smitty wouldn't have blown up today.....and you wouldn't have seen that sideline shot of Fox looking sick to his stomach after he threw it away last week.

[Davidson Deac II]

Just saying, there's no excuse now. The average fan that plays Madden on a regular basis or that has studied books on coaching can pick up the stuff he's still failing at. It's just hard for me to fathom that he still hasn't improved on these things, and I have really been hoping he would.

I most definitely disagree with this. QB is far and away the most difficult position in the NFL to pick up. And its much more difficult when you have two rookie wide receivers and a bad offensive line.

I am no Clausen supporter, and I think that at this point we would be doing slightly better with Moore. But to say that the average Joe could pick up things he is missing is incorrect imo.

[mick eye]

Yeah, that would be absolute genius! After winning his first out of 7 or 8 games and looking average for the first time out of those games!!!

Awesome.

You're right, we're all idiots.

HE IS A ROOKIE idiot. Yes the guy is in a crap situation and has not done well. We got that but you monday morning QB or sunday afternoon QBing the crap out of him is not helpful. Be a team guy. WE WON. Be happy about it and give the kid his due. He did the same ol crap many of our QB's have done.

MANAGE THE GAME. DON'T MAKE MISTAKES.

Rodney Peete, Vinny, and Jake "Mr Bojangles" all did it and today Pickles followed the modus operandi. I kinda bet you would be one of the first to talk smack about Luck after he makes a few rookie mistakes. You are just that guy. Enjoy the win. Show some class next week when the Killer Bees defense of the Steelers swell up Clausen and make him look like a high school kid you can talk all the smack you want. BUT this week the kid done good.

[neverlosethefeeling]

Yeah, that would be absolute genius! After winning his first out of 7 or 8 games and looking average for the first time out of those games!!!

Awesome.

You're right, we're all idiots.

Not idiots, just narrow-minded. And spoiled by the Joe Flaccos, Roethlisbergers and Matt Ryan's of the world--rookies who've come in and played well, and now that's the [unrealistic] expectation for all rookies. A rookie QB, especially with the team Clausen has around him, is going to struggle. Ben Roethisberger wouldn't have won as many games as he did with this team. So a guy's struggling and you all start throwing in the towel on the guy's entire career. These are called growing pains. Panthers have been plagued by wildly inconsistent QB play over the last few years, so I get that you want to have someone good in there, but this isn't the way to go about that.

Not to mention how in the face of it all, and with next to no help from one of the guys who should be a leader on this team, Clausen has been handling himself very well. It can't be easy to go from being such a well-liked guy at ND to being the rookie quarterback on perhaps the worst team in the NFL. Steve Smith has been a real jackoff this season. For as much as Steve encouraged Jake even in the wake of his terribleness, he should show the veteran leadership to extend the same olive branch to Clausen. Unfortunately, Steve hasn't been the guy this team needed him to be in order to be successful. So not only has Clausen been playing against our opponents, for a large part of the season he's been playing against Smitty as well.

It just really gets annoying coming on here to read you same people whining about the same stuff (namely Clausen) which has been a big reason I've not posted nearly as much this season.

And if anyone has the personal beef, I'd think Smitty had the beef with Clausen, not the other way around.

[mick eye]

neverlosethefeeling i see we agree on the trials and tribulations of Pickles. Smitty is frustrated and taking it out on the kid.

[Proudiddy]

I most definitely disagree with this. QB is far and away the most difficult position in the NFL to pick up. And its much more difficult when you have two rookie wide receivers and a bad offensive line.

I am no Clausen supporter, and I think that at this point we would be doing slightly better with Moore. But to say that the average Joe could pick up things he is missing is incorrect imo.

I know, I always appreciate your objectivity towards most issues on the board DD... Maybe my statement was a bit of a hyperbole, but what I'm trying to say is, for us to notice these things seeing it once a week, I don't understand how he isn't improving some of these things when he gets to see it as much as he wants during the week.

That's why I'm starting to buy the "poor work ethic" thing I heard.

Additionally, I think the point about the 2 rookie WRs is important as well. John Lynch (I always enjoy his commentary), said that opposing defenses STILL keep help over the top of Smitty, basically taking him away, and forcing us to beat them with a rookie QB and 2 rookie WRs.

Well, Moore showed that could be done earlier this year, and BSP showed that again with Gettis when he started. Combine that with the things I pointed out about Bradford, McCoy, and Skelton, and now you can even throw The Golden Calf of Bristol in there, and there's a lot of evidence showing that the rookie excuse just doesn't work right now.

I'm just saying these things b/c like I mentioned, I was hoping he would show improvement with all the hype he came in with, for his sake and ours as a team... He would've been an asset either way going forward. But, I'm just not seeing that TRUE improvement. But, I guess we can be grateful in the perspective that because he's struggled we'll probably fix that position with the #1 pick.

[neverlosethefeeling]

I like Smitty just as much as the next guy, I think he's just been too much of a diva this season. I don't see Clausen yelling at Smith when he drops a ball, yet Smith takes it upon himself to let everybody who will listen know when Clausen missed him when he was open.

I've really gotten kind of tired of his me-first attitude. He's really the only one on the team who's like that. He's the outcast this season when instead he should be the first one to stand up in the lockerroom, in the meeting room and on the practice field to lead a young team. And this even goes back to training camp when he was deciding not to help the rookie receivers because they had not used the great Steve Smith like he thought they should.

[Proudiddy]

Not idiots, just narrow-minded. And spoiled by the Joe Flaccos, Roethlisbergers and Matt Ryan's of the world--rookies who've come in and played well, and now that's the [unrealistic] expectation for all rookies. A rookie QB, especially with the team Clausen has around him, is going to struggle. Ben Roethisberger wouldn't have won as many games as he did with this team. So a guy's struggling and you all start throwing in the towel on the guy's entire career. These are called growing pains. Panthers have been plagued by wildly inconsistent QB play over the last few years, so I get that you want to have someone good in there, but this isn't the way to go about that.

Not to mention how in the face of it all, and with next to no help from one of the guys who should be a leader on this team, Clausen has been handling himself very well. It can't be easy to go from being such a well-liked guy at ND to being the rookie quarterback on perhaps the worst team in the NFL. Steve Smith has been a real jackoff this season. For as much as Steve encouraged Jake even in the wake of his terribleness, he should show the veteran leadership to extend the same olive branch to Clausen. Unfortunately, Steve hasn't been the guy this team needed him to be in order to be successful. So not only has Clausen been playing against our opponents, for a large part of the season he's been playing against Smitty as well.

It just really gets annoying coming on here to read you same people whining about the same stuff (namely Clausen) which has been a big reason I've not posted nearly as much this season.

And if anyone has the personal beef, I'd think Smitty had the beef with Clausen, not the other way around.

Again though, with what the other rookie QBs have done this year, I wasn't basing my expectations on Flacco, Ben, Ryan, etc., I was basing them on realistically standing out among these fellow rookies and being slightly above average. He's been below average for much of the season and outperformed by all of the rookies who have started more than one game in execution from what I've seen.

We're also taking into account that he came in knowing virtually our entire offense and has performed this poorly, that really does negate a lot of that "he's a rookie, he doesn't understand that yet." He should've been ahead of all the other guys for that very reason.

[jtnc]

This.

Jimmy was probably the best high school quarterback, ever. It took a little over a season for him to adjust to college. I expect him to finally start showing improvement sometime in 2012.

I expect 2011, with practice on the off-season he's gonna be really good.

[neverlosethefeeling]

Again though, with what the other rookie QBs have done this year, I wasn't basing my expectations on Flacco, Ben, Ryan, etc., I was basing them on realistically standing out among these fellow rookies and being slightly above average. He's been below average for much of the season and outperformed by all of the rookies who have started more than one game in execution from what I've seen.

We're also taking into account that he came in knowing virtually our entire offense and has performed this poorly, that really does negate a lot of that "he's a rookie, he doesn't understand that yet." He should've been ahead of all the other guys for that very reason.

If he came in here as "THE" guy like Bradford did, then I might be more inclined to agree somewhat. Moore was "THE" guy, and Clausen still came in as the rookie who was only meant to give Moore some competition, while Moore was still the definitive starter. Also, the team Clausen has around him does not resemble the team Bradford has around him, so you can't put expectations on one guy just because of something another guy in a completely different situation has been able to do.

Also love how you neglected my point about Smitty--the very topic of this thread. Show me who in St. Louis has treated Sam Bradford like Steve Smith has treated Clausen. Who's done that to McCoy in Cleveland, or The Golden Calf of Bristol in Denver?

Bottom line is that Steve, in carrying himself the way that he has for most of the season, has done more to hurt this team than he has to help it. When the team needed him to be that guy the most, he chose to throw stones instead of help shield them. Lord knows how many times he defended Jake, a veteran, who had MUCH more talent around him than Clausen has had this season.

Also, you mention above that "That says a lot about what he's doing considering this offense was designed for the passing game to provide an occasional big play/deep pass to compliment a pounding run game."

Just where, exactly has that pounding run game been all year? How many games that Clausen started did we have a run game that was worth a blood nickle?

[OneBadassCat]

Any kind of speculation as to what is going on in the locker room is complete bullshit. No one here knows what's going on so stop acting like it.

[raleigh-panther]

It would be great for the Panthers if Clausen could be 'the guy' as there are many holes to fill on this team.

Honestly, it was nice to see the kid smile today. It was the first time I could remember the camera showing a smile on his face.

It is clear the game hasn't slowed down for him yet and he has yet to play to win vs. avoiding losing. How he survives a very angry, still in the playoff hunt, Steelers team Thursday night will be interesting.

One thing that bothers me about this board, is talking about 'Madden' and 'reading books'; I would think it would be a lot different playing a video game and reading than to have 300+ lb men wanting to kill you, and oh yeah, 3 seconds to read the field and make the play. If playing QB in the NFL were so easy, a lot of people on this board could do it. There is reading in comfort, and doing in real life, two very different things.

[Proudiddy]

If he came in here as "THE" guy like Bradford did, then I might be more inclined to agree somewhat. Moore was "THE" guy, and Clausen still came in as the rookie who was only meant to give Moore some competition, while Moore was still the definitive starter. Also, the team Clausen has around him does not resemble the team Bradford has around him, so you can't put expectations on one guy just because of something another guy in a completely different situation has been able to do.

Also love how you neglected my point about Smitty--the very topic of this thread. Show me who in St. Louis has treated Sam Bradford like Steve Smith has treated Clausen. Who's done that to McCoy in Cleveland, or The Golden Calf of Bristol in Denver?

Bottom line is that Steve, in carrying himself the way that he has for most of the season, has done more to hurt this team than he has to help it. When the team needed him to be that guy the most, he chose to throw stones instead of help shield them. Lord knows how many times he defended Jake, a veteran, who had MUCH more talent around him than Clausen has had this season.

Also, you mention above that "That says a lot about what he's doing considering this offense was designed for the passing game to provide an occasional big play/deep pass to compliment a pounding run game."

Just where, exactly has that pounding run game been all year? How many games that Clausen started did we have a run game that was worth a blood nickle?

Yes, I can put expectations on him. Bradford is doing more with less. McCoy is doing more with less. Clausen came in knowing the offense and has been the worst among all of them, considering what an advantage that should be. I've compared their stats and what their offenses were designed for, and Clausen's numbers shouldn't be as poor as they are. Additionally, how many games has Clausen started? 7? 8 now? Well, the running game has been good-great for the last 4 games at least.

I didn't neglect your "point" about Smitty, I just threw that question out there for the discussion, and in regards to what I was speaking to in my most recent posts within the thread, it was irrelevant as I was expounding on what Clausen is doing fundamentally that is wrong... Smitty bitching at him has nothing to do with him not picking up a blitz pre-snap or not throwing it to Goodson while he's wide open.

I can't name any guys in STL or Cleveland that may do what Smitty does, mainly because they don't have any guys that have a reason to act the way Smitty does, other than Steven Jackson. People are trying to vilify Smitty to defend Clausen, and again, it doesn't work. Did you know Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice and had to be pulled off of him during their championship years? That' aside, just saying, he still produced. Clausen is a 20-something year old man, I'm sure he's dealt with assholes on a team somewhere along the line... Man up. Like John Lynch said today, if you want to shut him up and prove him wrong, go out and PLAY GOOD.

Clausen is bringing that on himself. And yes, Smitty may have stuck up for Jake early on during his struggles, but see how he handled it towards the end when Jake couldn't get him the ball anymore either. And Smitty got along fine with Moore to start this season... Why? Because he was playing to win, not playing to avoid mistakes. I don't feel bad for Clausen in that sense. And btw, before some of you Clausen-ites continue to paint him as a victim, somebody on here was at the game last week and Smitty was saying something to him, probably in a demonstrative manner, and Clausen told him to STFU. He's not some innocent victim of abuse. If he wants Smitty off his back, give him the ball when he's open, quit doing stupid poo that other rookies aren't doing, and play like a PRO.