Pat White

[panthers55]

If you're talking about players in general when you say "kids don't lose out because coaches want to win", I'd agree. Narrow it down to QBs though, and even further to athletic QBs, and this is where our opinions diverge.

The Pocket passer is king in the pros, and I seriously doubt that will ever change. Thus, QBs on teams that use a pro-style offense and teach their signal-caller to drop, read, and pass are going to be better prepared for pro careers than guys who play on an offense that''s option oriented or follows the credo of "take one look and then run".

I'm not an Ohio State fan by any stretch, but I loved that Coach Jim Tressel resisted the temptation to use Troy Smith as a pure athlete and instead taught him to be a passer. That move helped Smith reach the pros. Again, it didn't guarantee pro success, but it prepared him enough that he wasn't forced into the position switch that so many "athlete" QBs are.

I wish more coaches would do this.

(but I understand why they don't)

There are programs out there who use pro style offense and typically the quartebacks in those systems are better prepared for the NFL. But in college much of this is predicated on whether the college coach knows the pro game (many don't) and whether they have the time and ability to groom quarterbacks in that system. If you have several quarterbacks on your roster and can redshirt them and develop them until they are a sophomore or a junior then you will likely have a guy who can run a pro style offense, make good reads, call audibles etc. But many programs have to put guys in there right away and as such don't have the luxury to develop a guy for several years. So it is easier to get an athletic guy who can run and pass and build an offense around them. Particularly when most quarterbacks coming out of high school are largely green. Option quarterbacks are successful in college where they aren't in the pros. And there are more guys out there who can play that system. Plus I suspect that most quarterbacks with great arms and aspirations for a pro career might shy away from option oriented teams because they know they won't get a shot at the next level.

[thefuzz]

Ummmmm, I understand what you guys are saying about affording him a chance at the next level, and personally I would love to see him have great success on Sundays.

What I am saying, is that I don't want the Panthers to draft him. I am a huge, huge fan of pocket passers. I think that they give you the best chance to win consistently in the NFL, and that is all I care about.

And yes, Pat White and Drew Brees are roughly the same size, but lets face it ya'll Brees passed for over 11,000 yds in college. And I know that Pat White chose to go to a school that ran the option, however, he made that choice because he knew that it would most likely fit his skill set, and he could start.

Give me a project out of college that ran a pro style O that is over 6-3 and completed on the positive side of 60% of his passes and I can see spending a 2nd day pick on him.

[MadHatter]

And blind denial of people's bias & dated ideals about black QBs potential are most people's symptoms of guilt. Pat White deserves a chance and is no worse than the undersized weak armed Stefan Lefors who got a chance with the Panthers. Sitting in this thread acting like gambling a low round pick on him as a QB will destroy a franchise is so overdramatic. He could end up being a huge bust, but he wouldnt be the first and probably wouldnt be the last with this franchise. He could also end up being a steal and a hell of a QB (a la Garrard, McNabb) making your claims that he deserves no chance look as close minded as they sound.

Good to see that some things never change. Imagine that...KT making another racial remark.

Dude, get the fug over it. You try to play the race card in every discussion on here.

[Brandon]

Because he played in a Bobby Petrino system that inflated his passing #'s. LeFors was neither accurate nor a prolific passer in the next level yet still got a chance to determine that. Thats all Im asking for Pat White. People are always gonna invest energy into telling black kids & black QBs what they cant do or how they dont deserve to get a look because they dont believe in them. I believe in Pat White's ability to be a NFL QB. There's alot of sorry ass QBs in this league, if he were to become 1 of them, I dont think the league will fold.

Can you play with anything other than the race card? No? Thought so.

Seriously KT, either debate his ability or get out. You're only making yourself look like a fool when a lot of people here want us to take a look at him. Noone has a problem with black QB's, get over it. They have a problem with scrambling QB's. At least debate that rather than going back to your old standby.

To me it shows you're either very narrow minded, just like the people you're trying to chastise, or you really just have little intuition on football and this is all you can attempt to add to the conversation (albeit it's more or less taking away from it). Calling people racists generally tends to make racism worse, Sociology 101.

[Squirrel]

Seeing he couldn't handle the ECU defense, I doubt he can make it in the NFL.

That was just one game. He handled them pretty well the other 3 games.

[panthers55]

That was just one game. He handled them pretty well the other 3 games.

He has never passed for over 200 yards against him. His claim to fame was a 18-20 performance in 2007 for 186 yards. Many of those were screens and short passes that went for big yards after the catch not great throws pinpointing receivers.

[Proudiddy]

I for one would love to give PW a chance at QB.

He is similar mold to Dree Brees in Size and Arm strenght imo.

More so the kid is team first and a great leader. At least from what I saw at VW.

Him coming out of a spread offense scares me, but some things can be untaught.

Wouldn't have minded having Dennis Dixon last season either.

Dennis Dixon looked GREAT in the preseason, I would've liked to get him too.

[King Taharqa]

Seriously KT, either debate his ability or get out. You're only making yourself look like a fool when a lot of people here want us to take a look at him. Noone has a problem with black QB's, get over it. They have a problem with scrambling QB's. At least debate that rather than going back to your old standby.

Why so you can feel better about yourself? So we all can pretend the "we dont want a black QB" sentiment doesnt exist all on this board and in NFL fanbases? I know youd like to think Im the only one who feels there's a bias and resistance to accepting black QBs in the NFL, but I'm not. Its common knowledge the game dont want em. QB is the one position where we can use a black player's athleticism against him and claim that the more he has the less he deserves to be a leader and face of a franchise. Real QBs dont scramble or extend plays with their feet, they throw off their backfoot into triple coverage. Thats leadership, thats QBing. GTFOH!

[Squirrel]

He has never passed for over 200 yards against him. His claim to fame was a 18-20 performance in 2007 for 186 yards. Many of those were screens and short passes that went for big yards after the catch not great throws pinpointing receivers.

You need to go reveiw some film. He has some games where he threaded the needle on throws. Most of it was due t Rodriguez and what he wanted done. But I know I have seen him do it more than just one game.

[MadHatter]

Why so you can feel better about yourself? So we all can pretend the "we dont want a black QB" sentiment doesnt exist all on this board and in NFL fanbases? I know youd like to think Im the only one who feels there's a bias and resistance to accepting black QBs in the NFL, but I'm not. Its common knowledge the game dont want em. QB is the one position where we can use a black player's athleticism against him and claim that the more he has the less he deserves to be a leader and face of a franchise. Real QBs dont scramble or extend plays with their feet, they throw off their backfoot into triple coverage. Thats leadership, thats QBing. GTFOH!

Dude....all you do is spout racial bias in EVERY post you make. Stop blaming everyone else for what you don't have or don't get. Based on what I have read in your posts, you have to be the MOST racist person I have ever met.

I get sick and tired of people wanting to blame "The White Man" for everything tht you don't have or don't get. The arguement held water years ago....but it is getting really tired now.

[panthers55]

You need to go reveiw some film. He has some games where he threaded the needle on throws. Most of it was due t Rodriguez and what he wanted done. But I know I have seen him do it more than just one game.

I have watched him play and he can throw well at times and has thrown in coverage with success. He doesn't thread the needle with regularity or show the consistency needed for the pro game in the games I have seen. His most impressive by far was his last as a mountaineer.

My comments were about his performances against ECU since that is what you referenced. I didn't say he couldn't do it, simply he didn't against ECU even when they didn't have a good defense.

[Mr. Scot]

There are programs out there who use pro style offense and typically the quartebacks in those systems are better prepared for the NFL. But in college much of this is predicated on whether the college coach knows the pro game (many don't) and whether they have the time and ability to groom quarterbacks in that system. If you have several quarterbacks on your roster and can redshirt them and develop them until they are a sophomore or a junior then you will likely have a guy who can run a pro style offense, make good reads, call audibles etc. But many programs have to put guys in there right away and as such don't have the luxury to develop a guy for several years. So it is easier to get an athletic guy who can run and pass and build an offense around them. Particularly when most quarterbacks coming out of high school are largely green. Option quarterbacks are successful in college where they aren't in the pros. And there are more guys out there who can play that system. Plus I suspect that most quarterbacks with great arms and aspirations for a pro career might shy away from option oriented teams because they know they won't get a shot at the next level.

It isn't really just the athletic QBs to be honest. There are other systems and coaches that develop great college quarterbacks who just never seem to translate well to the pros (Spurrier, Tedford and June Jones are three that come to mind).

[Brandon]

Why so you can feel better about yourself? So we all can pretend the "we dont want a black QB" sentiment doesnt exist all on this board and in NFL fanbases?

See the thing is you ignored the second half of my post which pretty much states why what YOU'RE doing is not helping. Instead of trying to promote his merits, you're accusing everyone of being racist because he's black. Sorry but noone has a problem with McNabb*, Leftwich, Garrard, Cunningham, Moon, etc. It's YOU who have the problem. Sorry but I don't think you really have any idea what it's truly like to be discriminated against.

*Please bring up Philly fans, because it's common knowledge they blame the QB no matter who it is when the team falters.

I know youd like to think Im the only one who feels there's a bias and resistance to accepting black QBs in the NFL, but I'm not. Its common knowledge the game dont want em.

No you think you see it, when in fact it's just not there. The fact of the matter is that the NFL doesn't care what race you are, as long as you can make them money or win games.

QB is the one position where we can use a black player's athleticism against him and claim that the more he has the less he deserves to be a leader and face of a franchise.

Sorry but with the speed and strength of NFL defenses in this day and age you have to be incredibly gifted athletically if you want to be a true running QB, this isn't college where most defenses simply can't keep up. This is why college spread offenses fail in the NFL. But if you spent more time actually researching the game you're chastising rather than ranting about falsely perceived racism you'd know better. Not only that but when QB's leave the line of scrimmage they will get hit and hit hard, and we all know what happens to teams that lose their starting QB. The potential benefits of having a scrambling QB simply do not outweigh the negatives, and that's why clubs steer away from them.

Real QBs dont scramble or extend plays with their feet, they throw off their backfoot into triple coverage. Thats leadership, thats QBing. GTFOH!

This just goes to show you really can't debate the football itself. Until you prove me wrong you're just another narrow-minded bigot.

[panthers55]

It isn't really just the athletic QBs to be honest. There are other systems and coaches that develop great college quarterbacks who just never seem tp translate well to the pros (Spurrier, Tedford and June Jones are three that come to mind).

I would agree with you. June Jones and Spurrier for example were not great pro quarterbacks in their own right but both developed great college systems which didn't translate to the pro game that well either. Spurrier failed at Washington because his offense wasn't balanced and he didn't have patience with Ramsey for example. Plus I always felt that Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel were great system quarterbacks but not greatly talented quarterbacks. His offenses were not really pro style offense which read and react to the defense. Both Matthews and Weurffel struggled reading defenses and coverages.

Jone's had more success in the NFL and his run and shoot offense is the precursor of the spread offense which was moderately successful in the NFL. He did produce Colt Brennan who may make it in the NFL. But his system relied on the scheme moreso than a great quarterback talent so his players don't learn the intricacies of reading coverages and making progressive reads.