Let's Accept Some Basic Truths

[Fox007]

Absolutely LOVE how a text book tackle is overrated. He was the best tackle to come out of that draft. The best feet, best tech. Due to his lack of athletic ability, it was stated he would be nothing more than a great RT (which he was great at RT)...but he plays the left tackle well enough that many consider him a top 10 tackle in the league.

He isn't the beast that most people want at LT, but he plays it better than he was ever projected to be, so therefore, he was worth his pick in the draft easily.

How anyone can sit there and try to argue otherwise, is crazy.

Top 10 tackles aren't good for 3+ false starts per game.

How anyone can sit there and try to argue otherwise, is crazy.

[Mr. Scot]

Yeah, something we're still looking for obviously. Since 1995 when the Panthers entered the league we have only 19 more wins than the Bengals. About one win per season. Ouch.

We really don't have the right to cast aspersions at the Bengals I'm afraid.

Four winning seasons out of fifteen - nearly a third - and three .500 seasons where the Bengals have two winning years - exactly a tenth - and four .500 finishes out of the last twenty.

A playoff record of 6-4 including a Super Bowl appearance and three conference championships vs a record of 0-2, two wild card appearances, both double digit losses.

A total of three seasons with five wins or less in team existence. For comparison's sake, the Cowboys have just as many five win or less seasons over the same span (and may have four, depending on how this season plays out). Twenty percent massive failure rate for us. When this season ends, the Bengals will likely be at fifty percent, with ten of twenty seasons finishing with five or fewer wins in Mike brown's tenure.

To top it all off, not a single head coach in the Bengals past twenty years has a winning season record in that capacity. The closest is Marvin Lewis, currently at 60-79-1. The Panthers first head coach, Dom Capers, finished 30-34 (

[Mr. Scot]

Yeah, something we're still looking for obviously. Since 1995 when the Panthers entered the league we have only 19 more wins than the Bengals. About one win per season. Ouch.

We really don't have the right to cast aspersions at the Bengals I'm afraid.

Four winning seasons out of fifteen - nearly a third - and three .500 seasons where the Bengals have two winning years - exactly a tenth - and four .500 finishes out of the last twenty.

A playoff record of 6-4 including a Super Bowl appearance and three conference championships vs a Bengals record of 0-2, two wild card appearances, both double digit losses.

A total of three seasons with five wins or less in team existence. For comparison's sake, the Cowboys have just as many five win or less seasons over the same span (and may have four, depending on how this season plays out). Twenty percent massive failure rate for us. When this season ends, the Bengals will likely be at fifty percent, having had ten of twenty seasons finishing with five or fewer wins in Mike brown's tenure.

To top it all off, not a single head coach in the Bengals past twenty years has a winning season record in that capacity. The closest is Marvin Lewis, currently at 60-79-1. The Panthers first head coach, Dom Capers, finished 30-34 (2-1 in the playoffs). Fox is currently 72-68, including this disaster of a season, and will probably finish at .500 or just above it overall, with a 5-3 record in the playoffs.

But by all means, go on contending we're no better than the Bengals :frown2:

[Fox007]

I don't have a problem saying we are better off than the Bengals or Lions, but I would much rather be saying how much better we are than: the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles etc.

(or at least equal to)

Comparing your team to the bottom feeders in the league and being proud of it isn't really a good thing.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't have a problem saying we are better off than the Bengals or Lions, but I would much rather be saying how much better we are than: the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles etc.

(or at least equal to)

Comparing your team to the bottom feeders in the league and being proud of it isn't really a good thing.

Overall, the Panthers are probably in the middle of the pack teams, not all that bad given that the team is less than twenty years old.

This year has the potential to set us up for a pretty good run too.

[Kevin Greene]

Yes we're better.

One win per season.

But stay atop your mighty horse.

Throwing stones in glass houses is fun.

[Mr. Scot]

One win per season.

Playoffs don't count, or are you leaving those out because they don't fit your assertions?

[Fox007]

Overall, the Panthers are probably in the middle of the pack teams, not all that bad given that the team is less than twenty years old.

This year has the potential to set us up for a pretty good run too.

I consider us a middle of the pack team as well, maybe closer to the crappier side of the middle than the upper part.(if that makes sense )

If the right moves are made I agree that we could be building something special here.

[Kevin Greene]

The Bengals under Mike Brown are a miserable, miserable franchise.

Playoffs don't count, or are you leaving those out because they don't fit your assertions?

You assert how miserable the Bungles are, in reality we win one more game during the regular season than they do. I wouldn't even bring up the Panthers last playoff appearance, a humiliating 1st round loss at home to the Cardinals. Before that there was that game in Seattle Panther fans want to forget. 2003 was a good run but a long time ago, as were the bengals 2 Super Bowl appearances.

In the here and now and recent future, this year, last year we actually suck compared to the Bengals.

But the future may be bright if we make some good moves this offseason, we may even have a better year next year than Cincinnati.

[rmoneyg35]

I don't have a problem saying we are better off than the Bengals or Lions, but I would much rather be saying how much better we are than: the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles etc.

(or at least equal to)

Comparing your team to the bottom feeders in the league and being proud of it isn't really a good thing.

I think the Lions have a lot of Talent and if they can keep Stafford Healthy then they could be a good team in the next few years. They have a great offense that can put up big number and with the addition of SUH their defense seems a few pieces away for being decent. 6 of their 10 losses have been by less that a touchdown. Remember Stafford only has played in 3 games this year so watch out for the Lions next year.

[Fox007]

I think the Lions have a lot of Talent and if they can keep Stafford Healthy then they could be a good team in the next few years. They have a great offense that can put up big number and with the addition of SUH their defense seems a few pieces away for being decent. 6 of their 10 losses have been by less that a touchdown. Remember Stafford only has played in 3 games this year so watch out for the Lions next year.

I know they are on the rise, this debate seems to be more about recent history or historic accomplishments.

Which is why I defended the Raiders. I have been watching football well before the Panthers came into being, and the Raiders are a historic NFL franchise. I don't like them or anything but they aren't one of the worst teams by a long shot.

The Lions will be competitive for sure.

[jtm]

If there were head coaching openings at Detroit, Cin., and Carolina, which one do you think would be the most coveted? There is not even an argument here.

More successful franchise since 95'

Better core players

Better management