Let's Accept Some Basic Truths

[MaineManPanther]

We gave up the 28th pick overall in the 2009 draft along with our 2nd and 4th rounders in the 2008 draft to select Otah 19th overall in the 2008 draft.

So we gave up a 28, 43 and 109 to select Otah at 19.

Correct.

First round pick trade:

2008 : 1st (13th), 1st (19th)

2009: 0

Had we not done the trade:

2008: 1st (13th)

2009:1st (28th)

So either way we wouldve have the same number of 1st round picks after two years.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

It's the NFL, worst to first in a division happens all the time. Every year fans of terrible teams convince themselves "just fix a few holes and we'll be contenders" and sometimes every piece falls perfectly into place and they're right. Most of the time they're not, though, and that's what we're faced with.

Then it's a whole different story into becoming a consistent powerhouse like the Patriots or Steelers. I don't see this happening anytime soon, not with our current GM for sure.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Correct.

First round pick trade:

2008 : 1st (13th), 1st (19th)

2009: 0

Had we not done the trade:

2008: 1st (13th)

2009:1st (28th)

So either way we wouldve have the same number of 1st round picks after two years.

Same number of 1sts and a 2nd and 4th vanished into thin air. Hooray for trading away future picks.

Consider we gave a future 1st for a 2nd and 4th when we got E.Brown and there goes a full 1st round pick in value we gave away when you put it all together.

[Mr. Scot]

Somethings I hope most can accept as the basis of discussions around here.

1. Fox is gone: Really hope there's no debate here.

2. The trade for Edwards was a gamble gone bad (though we won't know for sure for another couple of years), not proof that Hurney can't find talent: Marty's a gambler. Gamblers will sometimes lose...BAD. I've found Hurney an above average but in no way great talent scout.

Looks like he rolled snake eyes on this one (but we won't know for sure for another couple of years), but when he goes with safer, solider choices, he's tended to do well.

3. Trading a first for Brown and Goodson was basically a gamble that resulted in a push: Brown has a good chance at being solid at the DE position and a puncher's chance at being good at the DE position.

Goodson, provided he learns how to block and hold onto the football, could be a key piece to the team.

Having these two players is worth a first, but isn't something anyone would put at the top of their resume. A "meh" trade if you will.

4. Luck will be the pick if he declares and we have the #1 pick: Clausen has his own destiny in his hands. If he can pull it together, we win a couple and draft 2nd or 3rd, Pickles is our QB of the future. If he doesn't, we draft 1st and take Luck. Pretty simple really.

5. We are two good drafts and a handful of FA's away from being a perennial playoff team: With the assumption we take Luck or Clausen pans out to be a better than average QB, all we need is a penetrating DT, a WR a G (or maybe a RT or LT and a line shift) to be a very, very good team.

The supporting cast is there (and is young). We just need a few bright spots. Like Fiz said, we're more talented than the Petrino era Falcons were.

"Solider" is not a word.

Other than that, I can agree :thumbsup:

[Kevin Greene]

Correct.

First round pick trade:

2008 : 1st (13th), 1st (19th)

2009: 0

Had we not done the trade:

2008: 1st (13th)

2009:1st (28th)

So either way we wouldve have the same number of 1st round picks after two years.

You still don't realize we gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick at 43rd and 109 overall in 2008 to make this happen?

We didn't just swap 1st round picks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=tx19draft

[MaineManPanther]

Same number of 1sts and a 2nd and 4th vanished into thin air. Hooray for trading away future picks.

Consider we gave a future 1st for a 2nd and 4th when we got E.Brown and there goes a full 1st round pick in value we gave away when you put it all together.

The point I was making is that as a whole we didnt give lose out on a first round pick. We lost the specific time (2009). But we still ended up with the same number of first round picks. Not prasing or critisizng, just clarifying.

[MaineManPanther]

You still don't realize we gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick at 43rd and 109 overall in 2008 to make this happen?

We didn't just swap 1st round picks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=tx19draft

I know, But I was just talking about the 1st round picks, so I singled them out for that post.

[Cavscout]

Fact: Solider is not a word

Fact: Neither are alot or allot

Fact: I don't want Newton, too Jamarcus Russell like

Opinion: We don't need as many pieces as people think (competent QB, decent OL play and biggest need dominant DT)

Not only in his play but also his attitude

[CatMan72]

I guess on some level you have to conclude that trading for the pick we used on Edwards was a mistake, but I also think he hasn't seen the field much simply because Fox/Davidson are not really sure how to use him and/or because of some kind of silent protest by Fox.

I'm in no way an Armanti or App State homer, I could give a damn about both of them, but with all the issues between Fox and the FO right now it wouldn't suprise me to learn that Armanti's lack of play is as much or more about a pissing contest between Fox and the FO as it is about his performance.

[Kurb]

You guys really don't know much about cam newton.

[CatMan72]

You guys really don't know much about cam newton.

I've already seen him play in the NFL, his name is Vince Young... LOL

[Cyberjag]

I have to disagree on point two. He's a good athlete and was an amazing football player in college. He's changing positions, and when he was drafted they said it would be at least November before we started to see him. That was when they were assuming that Moore would be good and the line would work out. This is still an incomplete.

I do have a question for the Hurney bashers. Do you get judged solely on your poor decisions at work, or do you get credit for the good ones too?

[panthers55]

I've already seen him play in the NFL, his name is Vince Young... LOL

The problem with Young is not talent but he has been turned into a head case. I have not heard that Newton is problematic in that area, have you?? If you look at Vince Young's numbers in college he really was the total package but personally I think he has been mismanaged by Fisher at Tennessee. This was a guy who went to the pro-bowl after his rookie year. All the ying yang between Young and Collins for several years has done exactly what people said happens when you flip flop starters at quarterback and don't let the quarterback know you trust him.

Plus there were questions about Young's knowledge of the game after he scored a wonderlic of 16 for example (same number Dan Marino got by the way). If Newton proves to have significant limitations as the scrutiny continues over the next several months, I might change my mind. But right now most folks just have a prejudice against him because he can run and pass and plays in a spread offense. None of those issues are by his own making.

[calebdv]

I have a bad feeling luck is going to stay in school, with the lockout impending and all, not to mention if he stays its almost inevitable that he will be the number 1 pick next year