Worst Situation in the NFL

[TheRealDeal]

That link you posted and took down was hilarious. I'll repost it.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2387

Here are some of the highlights:

"With all due respect to Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, the Fighting Irish's Jimmy Clausen has established himself as the best pocket passer in this draft." LOL Awesome

"The best QB prospect in his class. Has a strong arm and is capable of making all throws with zip and accuracy. Has an efficient setup and over the top delivery motion."

What tape are these clowns watching. He was one of the worst deliveries in the NFL and one of the weakest arms.

"Has a pro-style release." Again with this really?

Wait, it gets better.

"Hasn't produced much on underneath areas."

That's the only place he produces. It's like they've never seen him play before. This is awesome.

"Clausen is the best pure passer the draft has seen since Matt Ryan in 2008 and with more coaching he should develop into a top flight NFL quarterback. He is a sure fire top 5 pick with the real possibility of being the first overall pick."

I can't take it anymore.

To their credit they did get something right:

"Is not a vocal leader and can be rattled when the pocket collapses."

[chef17]

It would be a QB that is a game-manager. Not going to make your team win on his own, but would be serviceable if you have a good enough team

1 TD in 6 starts doesn't point to game manager.

[SteveSmithOwns]

That link you posted and took down was hilarious. I'll repost it.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2387

Here are some of the highlights:

"With all due respect to Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, the Fighting Irish's Jimmy Clausen has established himself as the best pocket passer in this draft." LOL Awesome

"The best QB prospect in his class. Has a strong arm and is capable of making all throws with zip and accuracy. Has an efficient setup and over the top delivery motion."

What tape are these clowns watching. He was one of the worst deliveries in the NFL and one of the weakest arms.

"Has a pro-style release." Again with this really?

Wait, it gets better.

"Hasn't produced much on underneath areas."

That's the only place he produces. It's like they've never seen him play before. This is awesome.

"Clausen is the best pure passer the draft has seen since Matt Ryan in 2008 and with more coaching he should develop into a top flight NFL quarterback. He is a sure fire top 5 pick with the real possibility of being the first overall pick."

I can't take it anymore.

To their credit they did get something right:

"Is not a vocal leader and can be rattled when the pocket collapses."

yeah, didn't quite read all of that before posting. you got me there. and on alot of those they were wrong, but my point still stands

[SteveSmithOwns]

1 TD in 6 starts doesn't point to game manager.

Your right, it points to him being a ROOKIE. you guys are killing him before even giving him a chance.

I'm glad alot of you aren't the Panthers HC. say what you want about Fox, but atleast he gives his players a chance. some pan out others don't. Thomas Davis wasn't that great his first few seasons. After one year of Smith only returning punts, you guys would probably think that's all he could do. Wharton wouldn't be on our team anymore since he started slow also.

now he has missed on players like Godfrey, and sticks with players too long like Delhomme, Stephen Davis and LaShawn Foster, but he does give them a chance

[SteveSmithOwns]

oh, btw, so far the results for this forum are 17 for Clausen, 6 for Anderson. Your going to lose this battle. And so far, the results for the Arizona forum are 9 to 3.

Here are a few quotes from what they think:

"This poll made my stomach turn. Jimmy still has a chance to turn things around since he's a rookie playing on a poor team. But at his current rate, he should be as good as DA in about 5 years."

"Clausen by default. He at least has a chance to stop sucking."

"Exactly. DA has sucked for 5 years. Clausen doesn't have a proven track record of being bad. Although, this coaching staff probably isn't the one I would choose to develop a new QB."

"Have to go with Clausen got time to get good dude need to stay another year in college"

don't know what the last guy is trying to say, but your compatriots in Arizona know how bad Derek Anderson is. Over here in Carolina, we know how bad Jimmy Clausen is. Both, so far, would pick Clausen over DA.

[SteveSmithOwns]

btw, if you were really trying to show that Arizona Cardinals QB situation is better than ours, I would have tried arguing Max Hall, a QB that still has a chance to be decent other than a 5 year vet that gets benched for rookies and a weekly pickup. bad choice there

[chef17]

Your right, it points to him being a ROOKIE. you guys are killing him before even giving him a chance.

I'm glad alot of you aren't the Panthers HC. say what you want about Fox, but atleast he gives his players a chance. some pan out others don't. Thomas Davis wasn't that great his first few seasons. After one year of Smith only returning punts, you guys would probably think that's all he could do. Wharton wouldn't be on our team anymore since he started slow also.

now he has missed on players like Godfrey, and sticks with players too long like Delhomme, Stephen Davis and LaShawn Foster, but he does give them a chance

1 TD in 6 starts points to sucking. Rookie or not, you should be able to throw more than 1 TD in 6 games.

In addition, where did I say I wouldn't give him a chance? You said he could become at least average, then defined average as being a game manager. I simply pointed out that in his limited time he isn't even a game manager. I never said he would stay that way. So next time you want to say I wouldn't give him a chance, please actually uses facts instead of assuming something about me.

And you never responded to my post showing that Clausen hasn't "thrown to 3 rookies many times". What happened to that?

[SteveSmithOwns]

1 TD in 6 starts points to sucking. Rookie or not, you should be able to throw more than 1 TD in 6 games.

In addition, where did I say I wouldn't give him a chance? You said he could become at least average, then defined average as being a game manager. I simply pointed out that in his limited time he isn't even a game manager. I never said he would stay that way. So next time you want to say I wouldn't give him a chance, please actually uses facts instead of assuming something about me.

And you never responded to my post showing that Clausen hasn't "thrown to 3 rookies many times". What happened to that?

Alright, yeah, he isn't a game manager yet. that is correct. that's why I said he COULD become a game manager. not saying that's what is going to happen, but it could.

In that Chicago start, yeah, they had signed Clowney, but he was the #4 reciever on the roster, and yeah, they did use Edwards some as a WR.

The #2 and #3 receivers on our team are rookies. he has thrown to three rookies once, and two rookies pretty much sense than. if you really want to get into specifics, yeah, he hasn't done it 'many' times, but he has done it atleast once, and still has two of the top three targets as rookies. not a formula for success

[TheRealDeal]

oh, btw, so far the results for this forum are 17 for Clausen, 6 for Anderson. Your going to lose this battle. And so far, the results for the Arizona forum are 9 to 3.

Here are a few quotes from what they think:

"This poll made my stomach turn. Jimmy still has a chance to turn things around since he's a rookie playing on a poor team. But at his current rate, he should be as good as DA in about 5 years."

"Clausen by default. He at least has a chance to stop sucking."

"Exactly. DA has sucked for 5 years. Clausen doesn't have a proven track record of being bad. Although, this coaching staff probably isn't the one I would choose to develop a new QB."

"Have to go with Clausen got time to get good dude need to stay another year in college"

don't know what the last guy is trying to say, but your compatriots in Arizona know how bad Derek Anderson is. Over here in Carolina, we know how bad Jimmy Clausen is. Both, so far, would pick Clausen over DA.

So basically they are using the reasoning I said they would use because they don't watch Carolina football. Got it thanks.

Basically they are using age and ignorance as their defense, which I told you would be the only way to argue Clausen.

[SteveSmithOwns]

So basically they are using the reasoning I said they would use because they don't watch Carolina football. Got it thanks.

Basically they are using age and ignorance as their defense, which I told you would be the only way to argue Clausen.

well, both groups, those that do watch Carolina football and those that don't still say they would prefer Clausen.

Alright, here's a question. How much better do you think DA is than Clausen? After that, figure if you think Clausen has ANY room to grow, and what percent chance do you think that it is actually going to happen.

Even if you think Clausen has a 20% chance to be better than DA, I would take Clausen. DA will NEVER be a QB that you are comfortable with. If that 20% chance doesn't hit, the discrepancy between the two QB's isn't enough for me to take the one that is slightly better right now, as they both suck.

[chef17]

Alright, yeah, he isn't a game manager yet. that is correct. that's why I said he COULD become a game manager. not saying that's what is going to happen, but it could.

In that Chicago start, yeah, they had signed Clowney, but he was the #4 reciever on the roster, and yeah, they did use Edwards some as a WR.

The #2 and #3 receivers on our team are rookies. he has thrown to three rookies once, and two rookies pretty much sense than. if you really want to get into specifics, yeah, he hasn't done it 'many' times, but he has done it atleast once, and still has two of the top three targets as rookies. not a formula for success

I mentioned that you said he could. But you claim I am killing him without giving him a chance, which I never once said. I stated that in his limited starts, he isn't a manager. I never said anything about the future. Any QB "could" become a game manager, so saying it about Clausen doesn't hold much weight.

Yes he throws to 2 rookies. Considering at least half the time we only use 2 WRs, one being Smith who Clausen rarely throws to, I don't consider that an excuse. As much as he throws the checkdown, who lines up as WR is irrelevant most of the time.

[TheRealDeal]

well, both groups, those that do watch Carolina football and those that don't still say they would prefer Clausen.

Alright, here's a question. How much better do you think DA is than Clausen? After that, figure if you think Clausen has ANY room to grow, and what percent chance do you think that it is actually going to happen.

Even if you think Clausen has a 20% chance to be better than DA, I would take Clausen. DA will NEVER be a QB that you are comfortable with. If that 20% chance doesn't hit, the discrepancy between the two QB's isn't enough for me to take the one that is slightly better right now, as they both suck.

I don't get what you are asking but I have some legit questions for you.

Also, your poll question is a little ambiguous, do you mean now or in the future? This year or 3,5,7 years in the future?

Why do you think DA doesn't have room to grow? He's basically had no NFL coaching at the QB position so I want to know what you base this on.

Why do you expect Clausen to grow?

Based on physical abilities alone, which QB would you take?

I'm assuming you answered DA to the above question.

Follow up question: If both QBs need some real NFL coaching, but one QB (DA) is starting with more raw tools than another QB, wouldn't you want to build up the QB that already has something to work with?

[SteveSmithOwns]

I don't get what you are asking but I have some legit questions for you.

Also, your poll question is a little ambiguous, do you mean now or in the future? This year or 3,5,7 years in the future?

Why do you think DA doesn't have room to grow? He's basically had no NFL coaching at the QB position so I want to know what you base this on.

Why do you expect Clausen to grow?

Based on physical abilities alone, which QB would you take?

I'm assuming you answered DA to the above question.

Follow up question: If both QBs need some real NFL coaching, but one QB (DA) is starting with more raw tools than another QB, wouldn't you want to build up the QB that already has something to work with?

1. I was going for the future value in the poll, not this year

2. He's had 4 to 5 years of QB coaching. Granted, it's not the best coaching, but it is still there. And the reason that I don't think he has any room to grow is because of his age, and lack of success so far. There are not many QB's in this league that suddenly are able to turn it around from being terrible to average after already being in the league 6 years. I'm not positive about this, but Derek Anderson might be released in the off-season by the Cards, and he won't be receiving a starting job. Now though it is biased, because Clausen is so young, there are teams that would still pick him up hoping he can live up to a greater potential, perhaps to try and train him as their next QB. there is no way he should have a starting job either.

3. Based on physical abilities alone, if both were the same age, and were having the seasons that they were having this year, I would take Anderson.

4. No I wouldn't. Ok, let's say that DA and Clausen both get released. they are both now free agents. and since you think DA has more tools, we will give him an even higher percent chance to succeed. Let's say, 30% to 15%. It would probably take atleast 2 years for DA or Clausen to be ready. At that point, DA would be 30 and Clausen 25. I would rather have a lower chance of a QB being good, but if he does become good, more years to actually have a chance to prove it.

I am basing this entire premise that every player in the NFL has been put into a pull and redrafted. Because of Clausen's age, I would take him. Between that and the fact that he is still a rookie and hasn't played much, I don't think you can write off an entire career based on 6 games.

[TheRealDeal]

So basically your only argument is age, that's fair just say it. Both guys won't have starting jobs next year so that isn't a good argument either. My argument was that Clausen is no where near the QB Anderson is, which is sad because DA isn't that good.