Worst Situation in the NFL

[TheRealDeal]

Ok, so let's say Jimmy Clausen is worse than Derek Anderson right now, which I still think could be argued. You don't think that Clausen has any room to grow? I don't in any stretch of the imagination think it's hard to say there is atleast a 70% chance that Clausen will be better than DA is right now. Just because of that chance I would take Clausen even if he was worse right now. You seem to to think that there is no way Clausen can get better.

And again, you are comparing a veteran QB with weapons, albeit no run game to a ROOKIE QB with less weapons and a slightly better run game. of course the veteran should win every time

He might get better, but so might DA, you don't know. DA has the tools to be exponentially better than Clausen. Clausen will always have to rely on the perfect system for him to even be average in the NFL because of his lack of skillset.

Where the hell did you come up with thatt 70% number? You have no real reasons why you think Jimmy will be better than DA besides the fact that Jimmy is a Panther. He's smaller, has a smaller arm, plays scared, bad motion, slow delivery, low release point, etc... so 70% is a stretch. It's going to take the stars to align for that to happen, not saying it can't, just saying 70% is an insanely high number.

A slightly better run game? They are second worst in the league and we are close to middle of the pack at 20th. Don't sugar coat it man. Losing Boldin hurt them tremendously because without Boldin or a run game, Fitz is a non-factor. Jimmy has more weapons he just doesn't know how to use them.

Like I said, I'll concede the age difference to you, but Jimmy isn't that much younger. Remember, his parents held him back twice so he would have the advantage in HS.

Bottom line: If I'm a GM I'm taking the guy with all the tools that needs to be coached up on the subtleties rather than the guy with no tools that ALSO needs to be coached up on the subteties, as well as the basics.

[Cavscout]

Jimmy completes 50.5% of his passes and DA completes 51.7% of his passes. Not so telling there. Then add in the fact that Jimmy only has a 5.3 yard average and compare that to DA which is a whole yard higher and you see why it's close. If Jimmy had a higher average you can assume his completion % would go down based on his historical numbers.

Jimmy is the only QB in the NFL with a YPA under 6. Kinda sad. Please tell me again why Jimmy is more accurate?

He checks down a ton, is the beneficiary of some soft defenses at the end of games, AND STILL has a lower completion % than Anderson.

If age is the only thing you have to base your opinion on then consider it a lost argument sir.

Both teams will have QB very high on their needs list this offseason

[TheRealDeal]

Both teams will have QB very high on their needs list this offseason

Thank you sir, I wasn't aware.

[SteveSmithOwns]

He might get better, but so might DA, you don't know. DA has the tools to be exponentially better than Clausen. Clausen will always have to rely on the perfect system for him to even be average in the NFL because of his lack of skillset.

Where the hell did you come up with thatt 70% number? You have no real reasons why you think Jimmy will be better than DA besides the fact that Jimmy is a Panther. He's smaller, has a smaller arm, plays scared, bad motion, slow delivery, low release point, etc... so 70% is a stretch. It's going to take the stars to align for that to happen, not saying it can't, just saying 70% is an insanely high number.

A slightly better run game? They are second worst in the league and we are close to middle of the pack at 20th. Don't sugar coat it man. Losing Boldin hurt them tremendously because without Boldin or a run game, Fitz is a non-factor. Jimmy has more weapons he just doesn't know how to use them.

Like I said, I'll concede the age difference to you, but Jimmy isn't that much younger. Remember, his parents held him back twice so he would have the advantage in HS.

Bottom line: If I'm a GM I'm taking the guy with all the tools that needs to be coached up on the subtleties rather than the guy with no tools that ALSO needs to be coached up on the subteties, as well as the basics.

I would love for you to explain how you think Derek Anderson can continue to grow. Derek Anderson has been given a chance to be coached. Clausen hasn't.

I love how you say, don't sugar coat it when talking about run game. You said we were 20th and they were 31st. It was only just these past three games that we have been able to run the ball. In Jimmy's first few starts we couldn't do anything with the run game. and you honestly believe Clausen has more weapons in the passing game than Anderson? that's ridiculous. Fitz+Breaston>>>>Smith+any other Panther receiver.

yeah Clausen does look scared back there. that is something that can be grown out of though. and as for having no tools? he has some tools. but it's hard to show when the rest of your team sucks and your thrown in the situation he's in.

From what I've been reading you are trying to argue that Jimmy Clausen is the worst QB in the history of the NFL and has no positives. I'm not going on and on about how he is the savior. but you seem to think I am

[RockECU]

If you took an NFL scout, who I think both of us would say knows more about the game than either of us, he would tell you Jimmy Clausen is the more accurate passer between the two.

What scout did you ask? I hope it's not a Panthers scout. They're obviously horrible.

From what I've been reading you are trying to argue that Jimmy Clausen is the worst QB in the history of the NFL and has no positives. I'm not going on and on about how he is the savior. but you seem to think I am

Clausen's not the worst. But he's pretty close. And you kind of are implying that he is much better or has the capacity to be, than he really does.

[SteveSmithOwns]

What scout did you ask? I hope it's not a Panthers scout. They're obviously horrible.

Clausen's not the worst. But he's pretty close. And you kind of are implying that he is much better or has the capacity to be, than he really does.

How is saying he could be average implying he could be much better than he has the capacity to be? Clausen could be average. You say he can't because he has looked bad in 6-7 games. I'm saying he could because I like to give people time to actually show what they have to proof before completely writing them off.

[RockECU]

How is saying he could be average implying he could be much better than he has the capacity to be? Clausen could be average. You say he can't because he has looked bad in 6-7 games. I'm saying he could because I like to give people time to actually show what they have to proof before completely writing them off.

How do you define average?

[SteveSmithOwns]

How do you define average?

It would be a QB that is a game-manager. Not going to make your team win on his own, but would be serviceable if you have a good enough team

[Delhommey]

I bet even more entertaining is watching how damn accurate my conspiracy theories are turning out to be. But then again I took crap from posters like you in the offseason and who ended up being right?? Maybe instead of being just amused you should be paying closer attention and learning something.

No. You weren't right at all, but you won't get that.

[hepcat]

Anderson has won games in the NFL and Jimmy has yet to win one so it's not even close.

[SteveSmithOwns]

Anderson has won games in the NFL and Jimmy has yet to win one so it's not even close.

true, but the NFL is a 'what have you done for me lately' league. So far Arizona with Derek Anderson as QB has beaten the Rams the first game of the season and Oakland on a last second missed field goal by Janikowski. Clausen hasn't won any starts, but also lost on a last second field goal to the Browns.

What I'm trying to say is that it could easily be 1 victory for both QB's if the kickers situation had just been switched.

And I'm not talking about this season. If I had a gun pointed at me, and had to choose between Anderson and Clausen for the next game, I would probably go with Anderson. But if I was asked who would I choose between Anderson and Clausen three years from now? I'm going to pick Clausen. There is NO WAY he can get worse.

[TheRealDeal]

I would love for you to explain how you think Derek Anderson can continue to grow. Derek Anderson has been given a chance to be coached. Clausen hasn't.

I love how you say, don't sugar coat it when talking about run game. You said we were 20th and they were 31st. It was only just these past three games that we have been able to run the ball. In Jimmy's first few starts we couldn't do anything with the run game. and you honestly believe Clausen has more weapons in the passing game than Anderson? that's ridiculous. Fitz+Breaston>>>>Smith+any other Panther receiver.

yeah Clausen does look scared back there. that is something that can be grown out of though. and as for having no tools? he has some tools. but it's hard to show when the rest of your team sucks and your thrown in the situation he's in.

From what I've been reading you are trying to argue that Jimmy Clausen is the worst QB in the history of the NFL and has no positives. I'm not going on and on about how he is the savior. but you seem to think I am

I'm going to answer your paragraphs with my own so it's easier

1. DA has never had a QB coach that can help him grow. He's had Rip (ewww) and Chris Miller, a second year NFL coach. With some decent coaching it's not crazy to assume he can fix some of his issues, which are mostly non-physical. To say DA has had a chance to be coached is pretty inaccurate, but then again I think you are just pulling stuff out of thin air and hoping it sticks.

2. Yes the run game has picked up lately but against NO in Jimmy's first game Dwill went for 90 which isn't bad. Again, pulling stuff out of your a$$. Breaston has been a product of having a HOF QB throwing him the ball and having two legit superstars outside of him to take the pressure off. Even if we say those two are better than SS and LaFell/Gettis, when you add in the threat of our run game it takes pressure off the receivers. Then add in Goodson in the passing game and it's not even close. Clausen has more weapons (Run game/TE/Receivers/Pass Catching RBs) than DA does.

3. Please, tell me a measurable tool he has. We've heard all about his intangibles but they were completely false so don't give me "QB instincts" because that is just a nice way to say "He has to be good, ESPN told me so, it just hasn't shown yet." We got fooled when he was at ND because he had far superior talent compared to the competition. (3 NFL caliber WRs including TE going against 4 drafted DBs ALL YEAR, 3 of those 7th rounders)

4. Not trying to say Jimmy is the worst ever (worst QB this year, worst rookie QB, YES). The argument was who was in a worse situation regarding the QB position. DA>Jimmy. That's all.

[SteveSmithOwns]

I'm going to answer your paragraphs with my own so it's easier

1. DA has never had a QB coach that can help him grow. He's had Rip (ewww) and Chris Miller, a second year NFL coach. With some decent coaching it's not crazy to assume he can fix some of his issues, which are mostly non-physical. To say DA has had a chance to be coached is pretty inaccurate, but then again I think you are just pulling stuff out of thin air and hoping it sticks.

2. Yes the run game has picked up lately but against NO in Jimmy's first game Dwill went for 90 which isn't bad. Again, pulling stuff out of your a$$. Breaston has been a product of having a HOF QB throwing him the ball and having two legit superstars outside of him to take the pressure off. Even if we say those two are better than SS and LaFell/Gettis, when you add in the threat of our run game it takes pressure off the receivers. Then add in Goodson in the passing game and it's not even close. Clausen has more weapons (Run game/TE/Receivers/Pass Catching RBs) than DA does.

3. Please, tell me a measurable tool he has. We've heard all about his intangibles but they were completely false so don't give me "QB instincts" because that is just a nice way to say "He has to be good, ESPN told me so, it just hasn't shown yet." We got fooled when he was at ND because he had far superior talent compared to the competition. (3 NFL caliber WRs including TE going against 4 drafted DBs ALL YEAR, 3 of those 7th rounders)

4. Not trying to say Jimmy is the worst ever (worst QB this year, worst rookie QB, YES). The argument was who was in a worse situation regarding the QB position. DA>Jimmy. That's all.

1. HAHAHA, and Clausen has? Clausen has the exact same QB coach that Cleveland did, Rip Scherer. Not exactly a strong argument.

2. If you remember against NO, most of that 90 yards was one on very long run. One run does not really constitute a 'run game'. After taking that run and out calculating the rest of the average, it was 3.2 yards per run in that game. We can both agree, not good. 2nd, I love how you say Breaston is a system WR, when he has been the Anderson's biggest target, avg 70.2 yards per game. Our closest receiver is Smith with Smith with 45.2 yards per game. Since you love stats so much when comparing Anderson to Clausen, there you go. But of course all of this will lie entirely on Clausen again with you.

3. As for tools, he doesn't have as strong arm as some qb's but still enough to get the job done. Chad Pennington is a good example. Guy has a noodle arm, but great accuracy. Now Clausen's accuracy hasn't been that great either, but i would still would bet it will be better than Anderson's. If he gets more consistent time on the line and more time with WR's to figure out timing, you would start to see better results. Take for example the throw at the end of the game vs the Browns. amazing throw to set up his team for field goal attempt in double coverage, throwing it to only where his receiver would be able to get it. Oh, and btw, Anderson is benched not only for John Skelton, but possibly for Richard Bartell, who just got signed by the team. Clausen has yet to get benched for the likes of Brian St. Pierre.

4. Both situations suck. Just for fun, I've added a poll to this thread AND have created a thread on an Arizona Cardinals message board to see who they would rather have. i'll post that as soon as they get enough votes to make a somewhat accurate conclusion of feelings.

[TheRealDeal]

1. HAHAHA, and Clausen has? Clausen has the exact same QB coach that Cleveland did, Rip Scherer. Not exactly a strong argument.

2. If you remember against NO, most of that 90 yards was one on very long run. One run does not really constitute a 'run game'. After taking that run and out calculating the rest of the average, it was 3.2 yards per run in that game. We can both agree, not good. 2nd, I love how you say Breaston is a system WR, when he has been the Anderson's biggest target, avg 70.2 yards per game. Our closest receiver is Smith with Smith with 45.2 yards per game. Since you love stats so much when comparing Anderson to Clausen, there you go. But of course all of this will lie entirely on Clausen again with you.

3. As for tools, he doesn't have as strong arm as some qb's but still enough to get the job done. Chad Pennington is a good example. Guy has a noodle arm, but great accuracy. Now Clausen's accuracy hasn't been that great either, but i would still would bet it will be better than Anderson's. If he gets more consistent time on the line and more time with WR's to figure out timing, you would start to see better results. Take for example the throw at the end of the game vs the Browns. amazing throw to set up his team for field goal attempt in double coverage, throwing it to only where his receiver would be able to get it. Oh, and btw, Anderson is benched not only for John Skelton, but possibly for Richard Bartell, who just got signed by the team. Clausen has yet to get benched for the likes of Brian St. Pierre.

4. Both situations suck. Just for fun, I've added a poll to this thread AND have created a thread on an Arizona Cardinals message board to see who they would rather have. i'll post that as soon as they get enough votes to make a somewhat accurate conclusion of feelings.

1. I never said Jimmy has had the coaching. In your earlier post you said DA had the chance to get coached, which wasn't true. That's the point I was making.

2. So Breaston is better than SS now? I think most of it does fall on Clausen because he likes to check down and throw to backs, that point can't be argued. When you look at SS production with Moore and with Clausen it isn't even close.

3. Anderson has a concussion and hasn't been cleared to play, nice try though. Don't worry, Jimmy will be on the bench as soon as this disaster or a season is over. Are you saying Jimmy is Chad P. without the accuracy? Great, like I've said, we have a no arm no accuracy QB! You have one example of what you call an accurate throw which was mostly a prayer that was answered (something good came from those ND days) but I can point to countless other throws where he missed wide open guys, etc.

4. Great? Most AZ fans probably don't know enough about Jimmy or watched any Jimmy this year to go off anything but his college hype. I'd venture to guess most of the country hasn't watched Jimmy this year and will blame his season on the lame duck coach and still say Jimmy is awesome despite what his game tape shows. (Basically what you are doing)