Matt Moore Vs Jimmy Clausen

[TheRealDeal]

I said it should be locked.

[Pox 08]

I disagree. I think with a competent run game Moore can be a successful QB. We've actually seen it despite how you want to categorize those games. Moore didn't have that this year and it showed. On the other hand Clausen has both had a run game and not had a run game and the results are the same.

Moore did look amazing toward the end of last season.

I'm not ready to write off Clausen though, we don't know how he'd perform if he had a run game similar to the one Moore had against the Vikings (The first 100 yard rusher in like 20something games? That's pure dominance against that Dline) and the Giants in '09.

I do think that Clausen has better WRs this year than Moore had last year, if that makes any sense.

Regardless of anything, I'm anxious to see how Clausen finishes the year, whether it's good or bad.

[TheRealDeal]

I'm not ready to write off Clausen though, we don't know how he'd perform if he had a run game similar to the one Moore had against the Vikings (The first 100 yard rusher in like 20something games? That's pure dominance against that Dline) and the Giants in '09.

To be fair he's had a 100 yard rusher and a 155 rushing day by a tandem this year and not done much. If Moore had those numbers history shows he would've done a hell of a lot more.

[Anybodyhome]

Sorry, I'm going opposite and saying the absence or presence of a run game makes no difference.

With one legit receiver in Steve Smith that may need the occasional double team, opposing teams have been loading the box with 8 guys all season long, simply daring whoever is playing QB to throw the ball and, in the meantime, stopping what little there is of a run game. I don't care if Jim Brown and Franco Harris were back there together, without a pass game every team in the league will load up the box and force Clausen/Moore/Pike/BSP to throw.

[Urrymonster]

Ok, the only reason I created this thread was to indicate the similarities in targets, pressures etc.

Why? Because if two quarterbacks are incredibly similar, it's likely to do with the scheme than the talent each possess.

I have seen so many people write each of these QBs off for one reason contrasting to the other and yet the both have put up startingly similar numbers.

In my mind both these QBs got a real raw deal this year, it may have cost Moore his career, Clausen his future with the Panthers.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Sorry, I'm going opposite and saying the absence or presence of a run game makes no difference.

With one legit receiver in Steve Smith that may need the occasional double team, opposing teams have been loading the box with 8 guys all season long, simply daring whoever is playing QB to throw the ball and, in the meantime, stopping what little there is of a run game. I don't care if Jim Brown and Franco Harris were back there together, without a pass game every team in the league will load up the box and force Clausen/Moore/Pike/BSP to throw.

i've mentioned this before...apparently few people pay close attention to the games.

carolina hasn't seen a consistent 8-9 man defensive front since before the bye week. the oline sucked so bad at one point, a 7 man front was waaay too much to handle.

it looks like they've worked all the kinks out, but i fully expect to see heavy run blitzing and stacked boxes from seattle. we'll see how they handle it.

[Pox 08]

To be fair he's had a 100 yard rusher and a 155 rushing day by a tandem this year and not done much. If Moore had those numbers history shows he would've done a hell of a lot more.

True but the run game didn't look nearly as dominant as the one Moore had last season. 100+ yards against the Vikings is like 200+ yards against the Lions or, well, Giants (Stewart).

Moore probably would have done better, he has more years under his belt, even if the playtime isn't there, he has much more knowledge of the game at this point in his career compared to Clausen. I'd hope anyway.

It's safe to say that right now, both are still question marks.

[CRA]

To be fair it would appear the OLine has blocked just about as well for both QBs and have performed about as well (or poorly as each other)

well, to be fair, Moore never had the OL or run game play like Clausen has had in his last 3 starts.

Moore choked under pressure and threw picks. Jimmy takes more sacks and generates less offense (they choke in different ways). With Moore we would go down....but we went down swinging. With Clausen we essentially pray for a RB or WR to break a long run or take a 3 yard dump off pass the distance breaking tons of tackle along the way.

that's my take at least.

also, raw stats are skewed. They don't take a lot of stuff into account that is happening and what actually occured on plays. Moore coming in for garbage time in a game or Jimmy coming in during garbage time late during the flip flops Fox was doing. Doesn't take into account yardage racked up when teams are playing prevent and giving up play vs. when a game is competitive.

I'm done talking about Moore as he is likely done here. Clausen just isn't good....even for a rookie on a bad team. He should be showing more based on the "hype" than he has. At this point Jimmy needs to show some stuff....until he does he deserves criticism.

[Pox 08]

Ok, the only reason I created this thread was to indicate the similarities in targets, pressures etc.

Why? Because if two quarterbacks are incredibly similar, it's likely to do with the scheme than the talent each possess.

I have seen so many people write each of these QBs off for one reason contrasting to the other and yet the both have put up startingly similar numbers.

In my mind both these QBs got a real raw deal this year, it may have cost Moore his career, Clausen his future with the Panthers.

Probably. Especially if we solidify the Oline and get better play calling on offense, then Luck or whoever we start will look like a superstar compared to how Moore and Clausen looked this year.

[run1stdownrun2nddown]

I disagree. I think with a competent run game Moore can be a successful QB. We've actually seen it despite how you want to categorize those games. Moore didn't have that this year and it showed. On the other hand Clausen has both had a run game and not had a run game and the results are the same.

I think we can all agree that the last thing the Panthers need to do is run the ball even more. (Is that even possible?)

[nosuchthingasapanther]

I think we can all agree that the last thing the Panthers need to do is run the ball even more. (Is that even possible?)

seeing as how they're ranked 21st in the league in rushing attempts, yeah they can run it more.

[Lumps]

they need to run it at the right times, after establishing success passing just like a pure passing team should be passing after establishing some sort of threat running it.

Panther's play calling is absolutely terrible stupid plays called at wrong times with no adjustment just a bunch of bullshit.

[run1stdownrun2nddown]

seeing as how they're ranked 21st in the league in rushing attempts, yeah they can run it more.

Did you consider that since we turn the ball over EVERY DRIVE that no wonder we are 21st in attempts. How about you use a stat that would actually contribute like a percentage?

[rmoneyg35]

I think Moore is better than what we give him credit for. He has played great for us before this year where our offense was missing Jeff Otah, and our Run game and O line wasn't what where it was last year. I think Fox didn't give the kid a chance and benched him way too soon. People need to realize that every player has bad games even Peyton Manning has had horrible games. People also need to realize that the first game the NY Giants destroyed our O-line and and the next game Tampa got to MM 4 times again. We can also blame Brandon Lafell and some other WRs for droping passes. Against the Giants LaFell was targeted 8 times and only caught 2 passes while in the first two games Steve Smith was targeted 17 times and only caught 8 passes. Matt

Moore impressed me against Chicago, sure he threw two interceptions but he was completing almost every pass and looked like he knew what he was doing. He came in the last few minutes and was in a hurry and tried to make big plays which ended up in interceptions but I thought he looked better than the stats showed.

He had a great game against San Francisco and threw the ball to six different recievers, and one big reason why he did well is because LaFell caught every pass throw his way and Gettis only missed one catch, Smith once again only caught about half his catches but the rookies had a good enough game to make up for it. Our O-line also only gave up one sack but our run game wasn't there and we was averaging under 3 yards a rush. This by far was his best game of the season.

Against the Rams he threw 3 interceptions but we can blame the bad play calling on that, I mean we threw a interception first play on a flea flicker which was a bad call and we only ran for 17 carries which is stupid considering we are a run first team. Also we gave up 3 sacks and 7 qb hits, and LaFell once again looked like a rookie. Steve Smith is another player to blame, he was targeted 15 times and only caught 9 passes.

and Matt played his last game against the saints, where he was 3/6 so we can't really judge him there.

I think we should keep Matt around, with a new coordinator he might be our starter if Clausen doesn't show promise and also assuming we don't draft luck.

I would like to blame 3 reasons why Matt Moore has been Unsuccessful. Sure it might be his fault but these 3 problems are not his fault and play a big role in his bad year and could be why Clausen is having a bad year.

1. Play Calling. We are very predictable and don't use tight ends like we should. I believe that we have 3 decent tight ends that can make good catches and break tackles for extra yards. Another reason why our play calling is horrible because we run the ball in a predictable manner which sets us up for a 3rd and long where we have to make a long pass that usually ends up incomplete. We also try to force the ball to Steve Smith too much which is predictable and brings me to my next problem.

2. Steve Smith thats right Steve Smith is a problem in my eyes. I have noticed he has dropped a lot of passes and you can look on espn and see the stats of how many times we have targeted him and how many passes he has caught out of that. I feel he is playing bad because he has either A) Lost a step because of age, his explosivness looks like it is gone or Is not playing his full potential because the year we are having and he just don't seem excited to be here, in interviews he doesn't act like the player that showed so much passion for the game

for those in denial about Smith heres some Cold hard facts

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/14941/steve-smith-leads-nfc-south-in-drops

3. Offensive Line. Ryan Kalil isn't playing on the level we expected, Mackenzy Bernadeau is starting to improve and has some recognition since taking over for the injured Travelle Wharton who in my opinion is the only linemen who has contributed well every game. Gross is not the all star that he has been and not having Otah has really affected us. Otah is a beast but right now his health is a big concern for his future. I honestly cannot understand why our O-line is down this year. Sure we don't have Otah but we played well without him last year. Garry Williams has started the last six games and I believe he is decent, in the run at least. Luckily our run game has came together and hopefully will continue to produce.