CBA 2011 Thread

[Happy Panther]

I thought we were just talking about after retirement benefits, i didn't read the whole thread.

I see your point, but the careers that last only 2-3 years aren't the ones looking for the compensation after they retire. they are the ones who couldn't make it in the NFL and fell back on their degree or college diploma or whatever and got jobs in the real world. the ones that want the benefits are the ones who were in the league long enough to acquire a hug list of injuries over a pretty good stretch of time. they are the ones earning the multi million dollar contracts and such, and a lot of them aren't being smart with their money. Pac Man spent it all at the strip clubs and ben roethlisburger spends it on body guards who protect bathrooms while he rapes women.

the truth is, the players that are given the most money at one time are generally the young rookies who don't know what to do with all of it, because they are all so young, stupid and naive. poo if i were given 40 million you better damn well believe I would blow it all on video games, a house, 15 flat screens and a sweet ride. but I'm 23 years old, just like a lot of these guys, so I have no real sense of how or where to invest and save money yet. neither do they. adding a rookie pay scale would actually go a long way in helping these young guys learn about money and how to take care of it, and help them make smart decisions for after football.

I don't know of many companies that give many benefits to their former employees after they retire, I don't think that's common but i honestly don't know, like i said, I'm just a kid. Do i think they deserve a little bit of help after they retire? sure, but only if that's what people in other professions get as well. they already make a ton of money, setting them up for life like this seems pretty shitty to the rest of the world.

Again the difference between the NFL and the corporate world is that the NFL is designed to beat you up. Thus the need for health insurance after you leave is different. Very few jobs routinely result in injury. 100% injury raet in the NFL.

the rookie pay scale is really a response to the absurd salaries being doled out for the top 10-15 picks. Bradford potentially making more than Brady is silly.

These guys are set either way.

This whole argument is really about the 75% of players who don't have million dollar contracts and are only in the league for a short time.

[Happy Panther]

There are a lot of professions where people put$1m their bodies on the line and risk injury or debility for the rest of their lives, and are not nearly as well compensated.

Not many who entice me to pay a few hundred bucks a week to watch live.

[civilizedgrit]

Immaterial. The issue is whether they are "entitled" to coverage beyond their service . I wonder if they are covered by workers comp?

[Anybodyhome]

Read my thread on NFL players and where/how their health care costs are paid.

Briefly, the teams pay another $13M or more in addition to the salary cap, when there is one, towards "player benefits." This is the employer-paid portion of health care.

The NFLPA (union) provides a post-career insurance plan that covers players for 5 years after they're out of the league.

In my opinion, NFL players are independent contractors. They are not unlike actors in that they take the gigs they want based upon the compensation and opportunity offered by a prospective employer. While under contract to that employer, said employer pays a portion of the contractors expenses, one of which is health care. Once that contract expires, it is then the responsibility of the individual to find their next gig.

Like actors, NFL players have a union that does provide for some post-career benefits. But if Al Pacino did a movie for Warner Brothers 10 years ago and Warner paid him $20M to do the flick, is it the responsibility of Warner to cover his health care costs for the rest of his life? Absolutely not.

Is it the responsibility of the Carolina Panthers to pay for a lifetime of health care for Tim Morabito? or Greg Kragen? or Mike Fox? No. That's what the union is there for. Teachers unions, Teamsters unions, metal workers unions all have pension plans that provide for the health care of their membership. It's not up to the former employers of all those people to provide it.

[Rhys]

Can we stop comparing the NFL to a regular business and players to regular workers? The NFL is not very similar to Mom and Pop's bake shop where Jim-Bo Bob gets paid by the hour and gets no benefits when he quits.

Many of you seem to support the owners cause because the players spend their money on "hookers and booze." What exactly are the owners going to be spending the extra hundreds of millions they want? Better quality stadium hotdogs? lower prices on stadium beer? Reduce tickets prices? Yea f*cking right. A 2nd 42 bedroom estate in Florida? Possibly.

They're going to continue to try and squeeze as much money out of us as they possibly can because they're profit driven just as much as the players are. Beer will continue to get more expensive as long as they think we'll pay it, food will too, ticket prices will as well. Richardson increased tickets prices this year. For what? FOR WHAT?

The owners are in the position they are because this is a SYMBIOTIC relationship with the players. Do they have seemingly more leverage? Sure, but that doesn't make them right. They're both making shameful piles of money and they're squabbling amongst themselves about how many more millions they deserve when they should invest it into the fans by reducing ticket prices etc.

BOTH SIDES are horse sh*t. Stop taking sides and start F*CKING siding with the fans, who are the real heart of the NFL.

[Anybodyhome]

Can we stop comparing the NFL to a regular business and players to regular workers? The NFL is not very similar to Mom and Pop's bake shop where Jim-Bo Bob gets paid by the hour and gets no benefits when he quits.

Many of you seem to support the owners cause because the players spend their money on "hookers and booze." What exactly are the owners going to be spending the extra hundreds of millions they want? Better quality stadium hotdogs? lower prices on stadium beer? Reduce tickets prices? Yea f*cking right. A 2nd 42 bedroom estate in Florida? Possibly.

They're going to continue to try and squeeze as much money out of us as they possibly can because they're profit driven just as much as the players are. Beer will continue to get more expensive as long as they think we'll pay it, food will too, ticket prices will as well. Richardson increased tickets prices this year. For what? FOR WHAT?

The owners are in the position they are because this is a SYMBIOTIC relationship with the players. Do they have seemingly more leverage? Sure, but that doesn't make them right. They're both making shameful piles of money and they're squabbling amongst themselves about how many more millions they deserve when they should invest it into the fans by reducing ticket prices etc.

BOTH SIDES are horse sh*t. Stop taking sides and start F*CKING siding with the fans, who are the real heart of the NFL.

Instead of generalizing everyone's comments into your rant, perhaps you should take a few minutes and read all the posts made by folks on the subject. While there clearly are those who are on the side of ownership and those who side with the players, I have my opinions on each of the issues and I find myself siding with the players in some cases and the owners in others. Health care just happens to be one of those I don't happen to be on the players' side.

But there certainly seems to be a large number of fans who support the idea of the teams footing the bill for all players health care for life. Many of these same people also went crazy when Obama proposed his national health care plan. Guess what, there's not a lot of difference when you strip away all the crap and understand how it gets paid.

[The Saltman]

This thread has been merged with all of your other updates except for your long first lockout thread. Please from now on anybody wanting to talk about the lockout or post updates please do so in this thread.

[Rhys]

Instead of generalizing everyone's comments into your rant, perhaps you should take a few minutes and read all the posts made by folks on the subject. While there clearly are those who are on the side of ownership and those who side with the players, I have my opinions on each of the issues and I find myself siding with the players in some cases and the owners in others. Health care just happens to be one of those I don't happen to be on the players' side.

But there certainly seems to be a large number of fans who support the idea of the teams footing the bill for all players health care for life. Many of these same people also went crazy when Obama proposed his national health care plan. Guess what, there's not a lot of difference when you strip away all the crap and understand how it gets paid.

I have read a lot of this, as well as other threads on the subject. I just get a little carried away reading all of it because it is particularly frustrating that there could be a lockout for such a sickeningly profitable industry and it seems to me as if people are taking sides when there's really no clearly moral high ground to the issue at large.

But I understand everyone going through Mawae's pre-meditated statements to the media to try and find the grain's of truth and the actual disparity in what's being said publicly and what's actually going on. Just gets to me sometimes.

[Happy Panther]

Can we stop comparing the NFL to a regular business and players to regular workers? The NFL is not very similar to Mom and Pop's bake shop where Jim-Bo Bob gets paid by the hour and gets no benefits when he quits.

Many of you seem to support the owners cause because the players spend their money on "hookers and booze." What exactly are the owners going to be spending the extra hundreds of millions they want? Better quality stadium hotdogs? lower prices on stadium beer? Reduce tickets prices? Yea f*cking right. A 2nd 42 bedroom estate in Florida? Possibly.

They're going to continue to try and squeeze as much money out of us as they possibly can because they're profit driven just as much as the players are. Beer will continue to get more expensive as long as they think we'll pay it, food will too, ticket prices will as well. Richardson increased tickets prices this year. For what? FOR WHAT?

The owners are in the position they are because this is a SYMBIOTIC relationship with the players. Do they have seemingly more leverage? Sure, but that doesn't make them right. They're both making shameful piles of money and they're squabbling amongst themselves about how many more millions they deserve when they should invest it into the fans by reducing ticket prices etc.

BOTH SIDES are horse sh*t. Stop taking sides and start F*CKING siding with the fans, who are the real heart of the NFL.

Yes, the players get paid what they get paid for two reasons.

These are the top 1% of 1% of 1% of their profession. Show me the investment firm that only hires the similar elite and they make as much as NFL players easily.

Secondly supply and demand. We want to watch the best and the market can sustain such salaries.

Comparing Gettis to some accountant 3 years out of UNCG is a terrible comparison.

I view both sides as playing tough publicly but taking this very seriously internally which makes me think a deal will be done.

[Anybodyhome]

I have read a lot of this, as well as other threads on the subject. I just get a little carried away reading all of it because it is particularly frustrating that there could be a lockout for such a sickeningly profitable industry and it seems to me as if people are taking sides when there's really no clearly moral high ground to the issue at large.

But I understand everyone going through Mawae's pre-meditated statements to the media to try and find the grain's of truth and the actual disparity in what's being said publicly and what's actually going on. Just gets to me sometimes.

What I find most annoying is both sides addressing the public, when they do talk, with half-truths, blatant untruths and BS rhetoric. I take umbrage when they think we're all just idiot football fans who pay no more attention to the game than turning the TV on Sunday afternoons.

[DR_DIGH]

Can we stop comparing the NFL to a regular business and players to regular workers? The NFL is not very similar to Mom and Pop's bake shop where Jim-Bo Bob gets paid by the hour and gets no benefits when he quits.

Many of you seem to support the owners cause because the players spend their money on "hookers and booze." What exactly are the owners going to be spending the extra hundreds of millions they want? Better quality stadium hotdogs? lower prices on stadium beer? Reduce tickets prices? Yea f*cking right. A 2nd 42 bedroom estate in Florida? Possibly.

They're going to continue to try and squeeze as much money out of us as they possibly can because they're profit driven just as much as the players are. Beer will continue to get more expensive as long as they think we'll pay it, food will too, ticket prices will as well. Richardson increased tickets prices this year. For what? FOR WHAT?

The owners are in the position they are because this is a SYMBIOTIC relationship with the players. Do they have seemingly more leverage? Sure, but that doesn't make them right. They're both making shameful piles of money and they're squabbling amongst themselves about how many more millions they deserve when they should invest it into the fans by reducing ticket prices etc.

BOTH SIDES are horse sh*t. Stop taking sides and start F*CKING siding with the fans, who are the real heart of the NFL.

And this fits into the health care argument how?

[DR_DIGH]

Silly response

Let me try to explain it more slowly.

The players did choose this sport. And the players are getting hurt more than they used to. And the owners are demanding that they play 2 more game than they used to.

Why would they not ask for some health concessions. Would be dumb not to.

I chose my profession. If something changes within my profession that makes we much worse off should my attitude be "Oh well i chose this?"

Even if I get paid well?

And also keep in mind this isn't about Peyton Manning. this is about the guy making minimum for 2 years with a foggy head and a noticeable limp for the rest of his life. Good luck getting that CFO spot with Wachovia.

There's no need to explain it more slowly. I understood what you meant the first time. I still lean towards the side of the owners on the health care issue. Regardless if the players are getting hurt more than they used to, they are still getting paid to play a game. They chose this over a day to day job like the rest of the world. They knew the consequences of playing football. They knew they would get injured and chose to play anyway.

With your example of "the guy making minimum for 2 years", you're still talking a little under 1 million dollars. Not bad for 2 years worth of work. If you can't be smart with that money and save/invest it, then don't look for sympathy from me when you have a "foggy head and a noticeable limp". That's more money than I'll ever make in 2 years. Being this is the bottom of the NFL salary pole, I definitely don't have sympathy for the Peyton Manning status players of the league on this issue. Their endorsement deals alone would pay for their entire family's health care for the rest of their lives.

[Happy Panther]

That's more money than I'll ever make in 2 years.

Which is the crux of your argument i suspect.

Explain how you are worth anywhere close to what an NFL player makes.

[DR_DIGH]

Which is the crux of your argument i suspect.

Explain how you are worth anywhere close to what an NFL player makes.

Really? Out of everything I said, you choose this? I don't value my worth in money bud. I value my worth in the life that I live with my family and the example I set for my son. So I don't need to explain in monetary terms to you the value of myself.

That being said, the point I was making was that citing the example you provided of an NFL player being paid the league minimum for 2 years (which would be a little under 1 million dollars), a person with any logic of money would be able to save/invest that money to take care of themselves and their family.

Notice I didn't take any shots at you in my whole response but rather stuck with the subject. You should try that next time.