CBA 2011 Thread

[Rhys]

Look, the owners are holding all the cards and the players are not going to get a sympathetic ear from anyone. The owners are simply going to dictate the terms and if, for one split second, the players union even looks like they're going to say, "no" the owners will get up from the table and walk away, chaining up and padlocking the gates to the players' parking lots along the way and we will see no football in 2011.

There has to be concessions on both sides.

As much as the NFL likes to consider itself just a regular American business, it's not. It may be when you're looking at a sheet of paper, but in actuality, it isn't just a business.

As much as you all hate the NFLPA, it has to exist. Without it, the NFL would turn into a ridiculous profit machine for the Owners at the very top of their gigantic pyramid and players would sacrifice themselves physically for comparatively little in return. Just like nearly every capitalistic venture thats too big for it's own good, the ones at the very top will milk every dime out of the thing to line their own pockets.

Really it's sickening on both sides. Millionaires squabbling with billionaires on how to carve up the last sliver of pie. They're all sickeningly rich, and both sides should be f*cking ashamed that they can't reach an agreement considering how the rest of the country is fairing.

Are NFL players overpaid? Sure. Are NFL owners overpaid? Damn sure. Work a f*cking deal out you over-paid clowns, geez, do you have no humility?

[Happy Panther]

As the players have stated over and over in dealing with being fined for aggressive hits, they chose to play this sport. They choose to get the crap beat out of themselves every week and get paid darn well for it.

Silly response

Let me try to explain it more slowly.

The players did choose this sport. And the players are getting hurt more than they used to. And the owners are demanding that they play 2 more game than they used to.

Why would they not ask for some health concessions. Would be dumb not to.

I chose my profession. If something changes within my profession that makes we much worse off should my attitude be "Oh well i chose this?"

Even if I get paid well?

And also keep in mind this isn't about Peyton Manning. this is about the guy making minimum for 2 years with a foggy head and a noticeable limp for the rest of his life. Good luck getting that CFO spot with Wachovia.

[Cavscout]

I hope they get this done before the Superbowl

[mav1234]

This is honestly really bad news... they won't even have discussed anything at all probably before the deadline for underclassman to declare... Likelihood of Luck staying in school just went up quite a bit...

[Happy Panther]

If you are Luck/Newton or any of the top 10 would it make sense to decalre but not hire an agent? because then you can go back to school if you want, right?

[TarPanther9180]

I hope they get this done before the Superbowl

I want it done before underclassmen have to declare. Don't want this as an excuse for Luck not to declare.

[MadHatter]

The players should get some extra care in the medical arena because their bodies are subjected to some horrific abuse and its getting worse every year. You can say that it is of the players own volition but the owners are making a swell buck off of them. I'll bet if Mark Richardson played football 20 years ago and isn't now able to ask for a bowl of soup because of head trauma sustained thru the years that JR would feel different.... but then again he did fire his @ss. OK bad analogy.

These are guys that are paid millions of dollars a year to play a game. They should set aside funds for future medical....not expect an employer who paid them for 4-5 years when they were twenty something to foot their bill for the rest of their lives.

The players ARE NOT fuging OWNERS....THEY ARE EMPLOYEES. They just don't get this.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Someone posted that the Panthers made 15 million profit last year. That is chump change considering we paid Peppers what 16-17 mil in 09.

How many businesses in this country are TOLD how much of their profit they HAVE to give to the employees. The way I look at it what the teams does with their money is up to them. I do believe in a ceiling and floor to payroll but for the players to demand XX percentage is insane.

If they don't like the compensation.. Go play for the UFL.

[Ricky Spanish]

These are guys that are paid millions of dollars a year to play a game. They should set aside funds for future medical....not expect an employer who paid them for 4-5 years when they were twenty something to foot their bill for the rest of their lives.

The players ARE NOT f**kING OWNERS....THEY ARE EMPLOYEES. They just don't get this.

good point, they are retarded with their money. all they seem to do is spend it on flashy cars and at strip clubs. try investing that poo like Moose did. He's pretty much set for life.

[Happy Panther]

These are guys that are paid millions of dollars a year to play a game. They should set aside funds for future medical....not expect an employer who paid them for 4-5 years when they were twenty something to foot their bill for the rest of their lives.

The players ARE NOT f**kING OWNERS....THEY ARE EMPLOYEES. They just don't get this.

Someone posted that the Panthers made 15 million profit last year. That is chump change considering we paid Peppers what 16-17 mil in 09.

How many businesses in this country are TOLD how much of their profit they HAVE to give to the employees. The way I look at it what the teams does with their money is up to them. I do believe in a ceiling and floor to payroll but for the players to demand XX percentage is insane.

If they don't like the compensation.. Go play for the UFL.

good point, they are retarded with their money. all they seem to do is spend it on flashy cars and at strip clubs. try investing that poo like Moose did. He's pretty much set for life.

These are all relatively naive comments.

First of all these are not just employees, these are a product and an asset which is pretty rare in the business world. A better analogy would be your rainmakers in a sales firm and even that is not exactly it.

In any company when you are dealing with senior people...if they are unhappy you listen. As the owner you never say f you you are an employee deal with it. You negotiate.

The owners have leverage but believe me they are nearly just as terrified of a lockout. Especially owners like say Jerry Jones who just financed a new stadium. Or younger owners who are truly interested in the long term viability of the NFL which would take a huge hit in a lockout.

A lockout would mean lower ticket sales, lower visibility and eventually a lesser TV deal.

Very few players are just absurdly rich ganstas who throw all their money away. the average NFL career is 3 years. If you exclude kickers and Qbs it goes under 3

So before you make business analogies make sure it includes a company where your career (not just your job, your career) will likely be over in 2-3 years and you have an odds on chance of injury.

And now this company is saying your hours are going up by 10%, your pay is going down and we don't care about your medical expenses which are now more likely.

If you can't see why the players want to negotiate you are delusional.

[Anybodyhome]

I'll be the first to admit I know little about insurance other than when I get a bill for something I needed done and the insurance paid for part of it.

Because several folks have asked just how the NFL players health insurance works, I'm simply going to put the info out there...

Not unlike most of our health insurance plans, the NFL has individual and family coverage paid in part by the league and part by the player. In addition to the standard term insurance, the NFL Players Association (NFLPA- the union) also provides an "NFL Players Insurance Plan" which works similar to a pension, except it's for health insurance.

http://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Public-News/NFL-Player-Insurance-Plan-Leaving-the-Game/

Essentially, once vested in this plan, an NFL player is covered for 5 years after he leaves the game. What I could not find is what it takes to become vested as a player.

Where does the league fit in all of this? Individual teams pay out an estimated $13M per year in player benefits above and beyond the salary cap that used to be. None of the nearly 2/3 revenue sharing the players received goes toward a health insurance plan. So, each player has a payroll deduction for his share of health care, the teams kick in for their players and the union has their plan to cover former players until 5 years after they're out of the league.

Does this help in understanding why the owners want to renegotiate the current revenue sharing plan? It makes perfect sense in my mind now that I've educated myself about where the money comes from and where it goes. In 2009 the NFL salary cap was $127M per team. On top of that salary cap, teams were putting out in excess of $13M a year in "player benefits" (read: the employer-paid portion of health care). Now, this $13M figure I have is from 2008, so we can only guess what that number was in 2009 and 2010.

The league also has its own revenue sharing plan among the teams. This is a $100M pool of money the larger market teams kick in to keep the little guys afloat. The Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings and several other smaller market teams basically subsist from these funds. For example, the Minnesota Vikings were estimated to have generated $30M less revenue in 2009 than each Chicago, Detroit and Green Bay, all three of which have upgraded or built new stadiums in the past 10 years. While the Vikes normally receive $15-20M in revenue sharing funds, that amount of money about cover those "player benefits" we were discussing earlier.

So, the players get about 57% of a team's revenue, the teams pay another $13M or so in player benefits and the teams have to open their wallets to keep their fellow owners afloat. For as much money as these owners are giving everyone else, I'd probably want to renegotiate a few things myself; and I'd start with the biggest expense of them all- the players.

[Rhys]

Someone posted that the Panthers made 15 million profit last year. That is chump change considering we paid Peppers what 16-17 mil in 09.

How many businesses in this country are TOLD how much of their profit they HAVE to give to the employees. The way I look at it what the teams does with their money is up to them. I do believe in a ceiling and floor to payroll but for the players to demand XX percentage is insane.

If they don't like the compensation.. Go play for the UFL.

Doesn't that exclude whatever compensation the owners receive yearly? Not sure.

[Ricky Spanish]

These are all relatively naive comments.

First of all these are not just employees, these are a product and an asset which is pretty rare in the business world. A better analogy would be your rainmakers in a sales firm and even that is not exactly it.

In any company when you are dealing with senior people...if they are unhappy you listen. As the owner you never say f you you are an employee deal with it. You negotiate.

The owners have leverage but believe me they are nearly just as terrified of a lockout. Especially owners like say Jerry Jones who just financed a new stadium. Or younger owners who are truly interested in the long term viability of the NFL which would take a huge hit in a lockout.

A lockout would mean lower ticket sales, lower visibility and eventually a lesser TV deal.

Very few players are just absurdly rich ganstas who throw all their money away. the average NFL career is 3 years. If you exclude kickers and Qbs it goes under 3

So before you make business analogies make sure it includes a company where your career (not just your job, your career) will likely be over in 2-3 years and you have an odds on chance of injury.

And now this company is saying your hours are going up by 10%, your pay is going down and we don't care about your medical expenses which are now more likely.

If you can't see why the players want to negotiate you are delusional.

I thought we were just talking about after retirement benefits, i didn't read the whole thread.

I see your point, but the careers that last only 2-3 years aren't the ones looking for the compensation after they retire. they are the ones who couldn't make it in the NFL and fell back on their degree or college diploma or whatever and got jobs in the real world. the ones that want the benefits are the ones who were in the league long enough to acquire a hug list of injuries over a pretty good stretch of time. they are the ones earning the multi million dollar contracts and such, and a lot of them aren't being smart with their money. Pac Man spent it all at the strip clubs and ben roethlisburger spends it on body guards who protect bathrooms while he rapes women.

the truth is, the players that are given the most money at one time are generally the young rookies who don't know what to do with all of it, because they are all so young, stupid and naive. poo if i were given 40 million you better damn well believe I would blow it all on video games, a house, 15 flat screens and a sweet ride. but I'm 23 years old, just like a lot of these guys, so I have no real sense of how or where to invest and save money yet. neither do they. adding a rookie pay scale would actually go a long way in helping these young guys learn about money and how to take care of it, and help them make smart decisions for after football.

I don't know of many companies that give many benefits to their former employees after they retire, I don't think that's common but i honestly don't know, like i said, I'm just a kid. Do i think they deserve a little bit of help after they retire? sure, but only if that's what people in other professions get as well. they already make a ton of money, setting them up for life like this seems pretty shitty to the rest of the world.

[civilizedgrit]

There are a lot of professions where people put their bodies on the line and risk injury or debility for the rest of their lives, and are not nearly as well compensated.

The average playing career is 3+years. What is league minimum? $300K/yr? So about $1 M. Not too shabby if you think of a regular working stiff getting $40K/yr for 30 years.