Rookie Report Vs Browns

[TheRealDeal]

I agree 100% there. Hes not single handidly winning us ball games.

Where we disagree is that I'm willing to consider all of the circumstances and facts to try to determine why and if it all falls on him. I dont think the blame should all fall on him for our struggles and the offense not getting the job done.

Our offense is a playaction offense that requires power runs up the gut and occasion cutbacks(to sucesfully sell the playaction) and w.r's beating the opposing corners deep. We can not get any push in the run game right now which is making the playaction useless.

I applaud Clausen for checking it down and throwing the ball away when he's getting pressure and nobodys open deep. You flame him for it prefering he go into Brett Favre mode and risk picks. Unfortunately our team is not built to be able to come back from big deficits, so the not risking the picks works for me.

The John Fox M.O is to run the ball down your throat and force you to stack the box and open up the playaction. Right now that isnt working and is not Clausens fault that we cant run the ball.

How many rushing td's do we have this year? If Clausen was a drive killer by throwing mulitple costly picks you could blame him for that too, but he's not.

If anything our run game is beasting lately.

Our WRs are capable of making plays (evidenced by 49er game and SS whole career)

Our STs are actually playing well with Captain returning punts and getting us good field position.

Our defense has kept us in games and often given the offense a short field.

So with all those things, Clausen still can't get this team to a W. He still can't find a way to throw another TD pass. He can't complete 55+% of his passes. He drops back then looks for Goodson.

I still can't believe you said our run game is doing nothing now when this is the only time of the year it has actually done something.

[panther4life]

If anything our run game is beasting lately.

Our WRs are capable of making plays (evidenced by 49er game and SS whole career)

Our STs are actually playing well with Captain returning punts and getting us good field position.

Our defense has kept us in games and often given the offense a short field.

So with all those things, Clausen still can't get this team to a W. He still can't find a way to throw another TD pass. He can't complete 55+% of his passes. He drops back then looks for Goodson.

I still can't believe you said our run game is doing nothing now when this is the only time of the year it has actually done something.

Not their not beasting if you judge them by the same standards you do clausen by

[TheRealDeal]

Not their not beasting if you judge them by the same standards you do clausen by

Yes they are, Clausen's last two starts were the two best rushing performances of the year, as well as two best ST performances, coupled with one of the best starting field position games. Add in the fact our defense forced turnovers for us and you have one person to look at.

[panther4life]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/24023/situational;_ylt=AiuiyEKeJ7.1QSEzaCOgI0P.uLYF

As CRA said, most of the yards come in the 4th quarter when we are behind. 361 of them.

Anybody who has seen us play under the Fox era knows he plays a pansyass style of offense until he has no choice to start slinging it downfield, often too late.

But whats funny is you left out his attempts went up in the 4th as well. His 2nd most pass yards per quarter come in the third when he attempts his 3rd most passes. The trend continues for the 2nd and first quarter too.

[panther4life]

Yes they are, Clausen's last two starts were the two best rushing performances of the year, as well as two best ST performances, coupled with one of the best starting field position games. Add in the fact our defense forced turnovers for us and you have one person to look at.

John Kasay?

[ElkinPanthersFan]

Not their not beasting if you judge them by the same standards you do clausen by

So what is the standard then.. 100 rushing yards = 100 passing yards?

Generally, in most circles 100= 250-300 passing, 200 yards rushing is only match by 400 passing..

Goodson had the only 100 yard games of this season. One was when St. Pierre was starting the other with Clausen vs. Tampa Bay. @ Cleveland Goodson had 55 yards and td. Stewart had 98 yards. Goodson also had 80 receiving yards. 5.6 yards per carry for the team. RB's can do much more than that. Pretty sure the 151 that the Panthers put up were the most on the Browns all year long.

Goodson has 265 receiving yards on 33 rec (8.0 yards per catch)with 318 YAC yards. Good Inflation for Clausen's stats too no? Goodson leads this team in YAC yards, which shows just how much checkdown ball we are playing.

[ElkinPanthersFan]

John Kasay?

He could have had 2 attempts if not for the INT with 3 minutes to go to? Grasp at more straws please. Kasay has won more games and lost less for us in his career than Clausen has lost since starting. The QB has more than half to do with whether or not a team wins. Look at Cleveland, Rams pre-this year, Tampa Bay, Oakland, and Arizona to see this. It is not rocket science to figure out. Peyton hasn't been as good this year and look at the Colts. NO sucked before Breesus got there.

This game can't be played without a good QB and wins and losses ultimately fall on Owners, Coodinators, HC's and QB's as they are the leaders of the teams.

[panther4life]

He could have had 2 attempts if not for the INT with 3 minutes to go to? Grasp at more straws please. Kasay has won more games and lost less for us in his career than Clausen has lost since starting. The QB has more than half to do with whether or not a team wins. Look at Cleveland, Rams pre-this year, Tampa Bay, Oakland, and Arizona to see this. It is not rocket science to figure out. Peyton hasn't been as good this year and look at the Colts. NO sucked before Breesus got there.

This game can't be played without a good QB and wins and losses ultimately fall on Owners, Coodinators, HC's and QB's as they are the leaders of the teams.

ok so lets say we had Bradford we on this exact team right now. How much better to you think he'd be doing for us right now?

[CRA]

I agree 100% there. Hes not single handidly winning us ball games.

Where we disagree is that I'm willing to consider all of the circumstances and facts to try to determine why and if it all falls on him. I dont think the blame should all fall on him for our struggles and the offense not getting the job done.

Our offense is a playaction offense that requires power runs up the gut and occasion cutbacks(to sucesfully sell the playaction) and w.r's beating the opposing corners deep. We can not get any push in the run game right now which is making the playaction useless.I applaud Clausen for checking it down and throwing the ball away when he's getting pressure and nobodys open deep. You flame him for it prefering he go into Brett Favre mode and risk picks. Unfortunately our team is not built to be able to come back from big deficits, so the not risking the picks works for me.

The John Fox M.O is to run the ball down your throat and force you to stack the box and open up the playaction. Right now that isnt working and is not Clausens fault that we cant run the ball.

How many rushing td's do we have this year? If Clausen was a drive killer by throwing mulitple costly picks you could blame him for that too, but he's not.

that is the catch, Clausen has been getting that in his last 3 starts. Still doesn't change anything....he is doing the same thing. Doing nothing on his end of the deal.

[CRA]

Anybody who has seen us play under the Fox era knows he plays a pansyass style of offense until he has no choice to start slinging it downfield, often too late.

But whats funny is you left out his attempts went up in the 4th as well. His 2nd most pass yards per quarter come in the third when he attempts his 3rd most passes. The trend continues for the 2nd and first quarter too.

ignoring turnovers and just looking at the positives.....why did Moore average a TD every 20 + pass attempts and Clausen is sitting at 1 every 160 + pass attempts???

Moore at least tried to be a QB in a playaction offense. Clausen isn't. You gotta go downfield.

[panther4life]

ignoring turnovers and just looking at the positives.....why did Moore average a TD every 20 + pass attempts and Clausen is sitting at 1 every 160 + pass attempts???

Moore at least tried to be a QB in a playaction offense. Clausen isn't. You gotta go downfield.

If thats the stat were gonna use to judge qb's then your saying Matt Moore is better than Matt Ryan and plenty of other good qb's in the leauge.

The whole argument in this thread and others is this.

You boldy deciding after 5 starts that Jimmy Clausen sucks very very badly.

I'm reserving judgement and trying to talk you off the ledge. I dont claim that he's played lights out or anything close to it. I just say its too early to give up on him and impossible to come to that conclusion based of his supporting cast. I do see litte rays of hope here and there and on this abmysal team thats enough for me to hold out hope that he can be a good qb in this league

[TheRealDeal]

If thats the stat were gonna use to judge qb's then your saying Matt Moore is better than Matt Ryan and plenty of other good qb's in the leauge.

The whole argument in this thread and others is this.

You boldy deciding after 5 starts that Jimmy Clausen sucks very very badly.

I'm reserving judgement and trying to talk you off the ledge. I dont claim that he's played lights out or anything close to it. I just say its too early to give up on him and impossible to come to that conclusion based of his supporting cast. I do see litte rays of hope here and there and on this abmysal team thats enough for me to hold out hope that he can be a good qb in this league

If you've followed his whole career you'd know more about him. It isn't just the 5 games. Really look at his career and there won't be one thing that stands out to you, except that his dad is rich and bought him hype wherever he went, true story.

[CRA]

If thats the stat were gonna use to judge qb's then your saying Matt Moore is better than Matt Ryan and plenty of other good qb's in the leauge.

The whole argument in this thread and others is this.

You boldy deciding after 5 starts that Jimmy Clausen sucks very very badly.

I'm reserving judgement and trying to talk you off the ledge. I dont claim that he's played lights out or anything close to it. I just say its too early to give up on him and impossible to come to that conclusion based of his supporting cast. I do see litte rays of hope here and there and on this abmysal team thats enough for me to hold out hope that he can be a good qb in this league

it isn't THE stat to judge QBs. Just something worth nothing. Jimmy's lack of offensive production is crazy. Right now Clausen DOES suck badly. He can improve....I hope he does. I pull for him every Sunday and will continue. But right now he simply sucks.

[Urrymonster]

ignoring turnovers and just looking at the positives.....why did Moore average a TD every 20 + pass attempts and Clausen is sitting at 1 every 160 + pass attempts???

Moore at least tried to be a QB in a playaction offense. Clausen isn't. You gotta go downfield.

Look I agree with a lot of what you had said, but this is a little short sighted. The positives of Clausen are that he has half the interceptions per attempt that Moore.