Trust and Interference

[Mr. Scot]

Who is this guy? Don't know yet but I will when I see him. He surely isn't a Trgovac who could even make a lateral move this year, he got a demotion and was happy to land on his feet at all.

(hoping against hope) :willy_nilly:

[Sandy Claws]

Realistically though, it wouldn't have been all that difficult to just say "no, that had nothing to do with it".

I asked elsewhere: How would most of us feel if our boss was constantly looking over our shoulder or "helping" us as we tried to work?

Just like a lot of others, you desperately want the defense's collapse to be the fault of one man with that one man being Trgo. With him now being gone, you have reason for increased optimism for the '09 season. Your "boss constantly looking over our shoulder" scenario has the same theme, pushing the blame on Trgo, implying the oversight made him nervous to the point of making errors.

Let's discuss this. Trgo was offered a contract extension here. He turned it down to take a lesser position with another team. Why would somebody do that? Why would somebody willfully accept a 50% paycut to go into an unknown situation? Because he felt the boss was watching him too much? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Did he get a clause in his Green Bay contract that the boss didn't have any input into the D-line? I doubt it.

We know that the D did well for the first part of the year and fell off at the later parts. Reports are that Fox got involved later in the year. You can add one point to the ohter and get to " Trgo didn't like the increased management observation and reacted to it poorly". But, as I said in the other thread, it's just as possible that Fox's input was the cause of the problem. If your boss told you "we need to do this in this way", you might try to explain why that is not the best way, but if he ultimately said "do it my way", what are your options? If it doesn't work or makes things worse, who couldthe boss let take the blame?

Since we're just speculating, let's try this on. Assume you're the DC and your boss starts requiring you to make changes despite your feelings that they will do more harm than good. You've tried to explain but he insists since he is a defensive guru. The end result is exactly as you expected, but at the end of the season, here comes the boss with a contract extention. The money is good so you accept but, as you think about it, it hits you that continuing on the current path could impact your career aspirations. Eventually, you would like to be a head coach, but keeping your name attached to this sinking ship will have a negative impact on that. You offer to stay but only if the boss backs out giving you more authority to run and improve your D. The guru says no. You both agree it would be best to part ways.

On second thought, it couldn't possibly have gone down like that because almost everybody on certain message boards blame Trgo. They MUST be right despite the fact that sitting in the stadium is the closest most of them have been to organized football.

[Fireball77]

I "choose" not to believe that at this time, mainly because there is no direct proof and it would mean bad things for my team. If proven true then my respect for the Big Cat for allowing it to happen wains...

Which "it", Trgo maybe feeling he was being held down or the exodus of coaches being due to Fox?

As someone who had a boss did that, it's not something that they just start doing or do with just you, they do that with everyone.

I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you for your TPS reports...still don't have 'em.

In the NFL I would think that this would be something that would come with the territory especially if you are a DC with the HC being a very good former DC himself, both they're heads are on the chopping block if something goes wrong, and if the defense isn't preforming up to you expectations as the HC wouldn't you start having a say in the Defenses game planing.

Agreed...there hasn't been a single year I remember that Belichick hasn't coached the hell out of his defense (especially the LBs) on the sidelines during the game regardless of who the DC was. But perception is reality for Trgovac if he feels this way. And to me, the bottom line is that IF he feels that way, the liklihood that his continuous employment on Fox's staff wasn't going to work is a big one.

[Snake]

This just seems like another rip Jon Fox thread in disguise.

[magnus]

It depends on a couple things. The first time, Fox did so because Beason was a new starter at MLB. Why was the second time? Was it a matter of Godfrey, the catch-all coverage scapegoat, or something else?

Is it a matter of him thinking Trgovac wasn't doing a good job, or was it a matter of Fox getting more involved when he thought the pressure was on? Did Fox help, or hinder?

We won't know, which is (I guess) the point of what speculation is right or wrong, but certainly, it also depends on what you believe a head coach should be doing with his team.

[Doc Holiday]

It depends on a couple things. The first time, Fox did so because Beason was a new starter at MLB. Why was the second time? Was it a matter of Godfrey, the catch-all coverage scapegoat, or something else?

Is it a matter of him thinking Trgovac wasn't doing a good job, or was it a matter of Fox getting more involved when he thought the pressure was on? Did Fox help, or hinder?

We won't know, which is (I guess) the point of what speculation is right or wrong, but certainly, it also depends on what you believe a head coach should be doing with his team.

As mentioned in my other post that's something I would expect and not be surprised to find out that it's happening, seriously what do you think the HC is there for? to pick the coordinators and just watch from the sideline for the rest of the season? let's not be stupid.

[Mr. Scot]

Just like a lot of others, you desperately want the defense's collapse to be the fault of one man with that one man being Trgo. With him now being gone, you have reason for increased optimism for the '09 season. Your "boss constantly looking over our shoulder" scenario has the same theme, pushing the blame on Trgo, implying the oversight made him nervous to the point of making errors.

This just seems like another rip Jon Fox thread in disguise.

The idea of the thread was to allow people to choose whether they perceive the prior problems as Trgovac being inept or Fox being a meddler. And based on this, to predict what we get next in a DC vs what they hope we get.

The fact that I've gotten both these disparate reactions makes me feel good about the way the questions were framed

[Fireball77]

Actually that's my main impression of Tomlin...he basically lets his coordinators coordinate. He's a defensive guy who has a great, great DC (who was basically "forced" on him) so why not? Meanwhile, he's made some really iffy decisions that put his team in a bind and had they NOT had a great defense his head may be screamed for. I think Marty S. was likely a bit hands off in SD too when he had Cameron and Phillips. Again, two great coordinators. I think pretty much any approach can work IF your guys on staff are on the same page overall.

[Mr. Scot]

Actually that's my main impression of Tomlin...he basically lets his coordinators coordinate. He's a defensive guy who has a great, great DC (who was basically "forced" on him) so why not? Meanwhile, he's made some really iffy decisions that put his team in a bind and had they NOT had a great defense his head may be screamed for. I think Marty S. was likely a bit hands off in SD too when he had Cameron and Phillips. Again, two great coordinators. I think pretty much any approach can work IF your guys on staff are on the same page overall.

Kinda like Buddy Ryan and Kevin Gilbride.

(oops...bad example) :sosp:

[Debil]

Bottom line, if a HC can't trust his DC enough to let him handle the defense by himself, then he needs to replace them. But if it's Fox's style to have a more hands-on approach to managing the defense, then that's quite another thing - they need to find a coordinator who is compatible with that style. But I don't think the latter is the case since Fox didn't insert himself into the mix until later on into each season.

[Boltergeist]

I think Marty S. was likely a bit hands off in SD too when he had Cameron and Phillips. Again, two great coordinators. I think pretty much any approach can work IF your guys on staff are on the same page overall.

Harbaugh had it pretty good with Cameron and Ryan last year as well.

[Fireball77]

Agreed, Bolter. Though he did a great job as well, Sparano had a lot of proven guys backing him up on how to run a team also including BP. It's the reason that if I had a vote for COTY it would have gone to Mike Smith.

PS I wasn't trying to slam Marty in any way.... I love Marty.

[Kevin Greene]

Actually that's my main impression of Tomlin...he basically lets his coordinators coordinate. He's a defensive guy who has a great, great DC (who was basically "forced" on him) so why not? Meanwhile, he's made some really iffy decisions that put his team in a bind and had they NOT had a great defense his head may be screamed for. I think Marty S. was likely a bit hands off in SD too when he had Cameron and Phillips. Again, two great coordinators. I think pretty much any approach can work IF your guys on staff are on the same page overall.

Schottenheimer was fired because of his failures in the playoffs. During the regular season I would agree, he was more hands off on the OC play calling. But one of his problems was going uber conservative in playoff games and doing the "playing not to lose" phenomena.

[Fireball77]

I think the SOLE reason Marty was fired was AJ Smith's ego, but that's just me.

Look at how Smith has talked about LdT in the press if you want an example.