Hurney and mortgaging the future...

[thefuzz]

RB is the deepest position in the draft and generally easy to find through FA as well. They also have the shortest careers and effect a small number of plays in a game (especially in a two back system) when compared to other high value positions that impact every play (OT, QB, ect).

There's also the adage that you don't need a great RB to have a great rushing attack. Have a potent passing game so teams can't stack the box and a dominant OLine and you can pretty much plug in any jackass and still have a solid YPC.

Personally I don't like spending a single first rounder on a RB. But then spending two in three years and you end up with the best RB depth chart in the league, and yet the worst overall offense.

This is what is pretty frustrating to me about Hurney. We all love Stew and D Will, but to spend two 1's on RB's within 3 years is foolish, IMO.

Not only that, but we have also drafted LB's in the first round quite a few times, and they too can be found later in the draft.

OT's, DT's, DE's QB's, and WR's in the 1st is where you find the talent, the other positions are much easier to address in the latter rounds.

[panthers55]

This is what is pretty frustrating to me about Hurney. We all love Stew and D Will, but to spend two 1's on RB's within 3 years is foolish, IMO.

Not only that, but we have also drafted LB's in the first round quite a few times, and they too can be found later in the draft.

OT's, DT's, DE's QB's, and WR's in the 1st is where you find the talent, the other positions are much easier to address in the latter rounds.

Seems to me that Hurney has done exactly what you wanted outside of the Williams and Stewart picks lately. Even with Stewart, he picked Otah (OT) the same year. Brown and Clausen were our highest picks the last 2 years. And all three were potential first rounders. So I wouldn't say he doesn't use high picks on areas like OT, DE, or QBs.

Plus he has shown that he can get DEs and WRs much lower in the draft like perhaps the 6th round. Lets see what happens this year with a new regime.

[rayzor]

Who has luck beat, or what good college defense has he torched, that makes you say such irresponsible things? Why continue to draft a position, that we're young at, and developing talent. Do you think Luck would have done much better under this atrocious team this year?

My logic is dont give up on a guy who was regarded as a TOP 10 PICK that slid, thats funny because didnt Aaron Rogers fall the same way? I want a position of NEED. We would be dumb to pass on Nick Fairly, Patrick Peterson, or AJ Green. Those guys have proved their talent week in and week out against the best in college football.

Lucks biggest 2 games, losing to a medicore Oklahoma team and Oregon.

say such irresponsible things? lol you're a piece of work. the things i have been saying is the same things that most people have been saying. people a whole lot more educated than either of us about this game have been making arguments for his being #1 and if you're too lazy to find them and/or read them then i'm not going to help you. i'll let you wallow in ignorance. i don't mind/care.

let's turn this around. Who has clausen beat, or what good college defense has he torched, that makes you say things that go against what most experts are saying about luck? Why not continue to draft a position, that we're young at, and developing talent and that we don't have settled at all.

more than that...who has clausen beat at the pro level that makes you think we could afford to pass up on a stud like luck. what makes clausen so special?

my logic is that clausen has done nothing to make us pass up on luck. QB is a position of need and it is far from settled. luck is a better prospect. we don't really have enough invested in clasuen that says we shouldn't try to get a better prospect. we haven't seen enough from clausen to not try to improve the most important position of need we have.

like i said, the best case clausen could make for himself is to beat teams and knock us out of the race for #1 overall.

would luck have done better...probably. would luck be better down the road? that's the more important question and one that i feel confident in saying yes.

we would be dumb to pass on luck for any position. we would be dumb to pass on luck because we feel we have settled with clausen. passing on luck if we have the opportunity will be one of those things that the franchise would regret for many years to come.

[thefuzz]

Seems to me that Hurney has done exactly what you wanted outside of the Williams and Stewart picks lately. Even with Stewart, he picked Otah (OT) the same year. Brown and Clausen were our highest picks the last 2 years. And all three were potential first rounders. So I wouldn't say he doesn't use high picks on areas like OT, DE, or QBs.

Plus he has shown that he can get DEs and WRs much lower in the draft like perhaps the 6th round. Lets see what happens this year with a new regime.

Ummm negative.

I hate giving up the next years picks in a win now attitude.

EB was undersized and overrated. He slipped into the 2nd for a reason, and we gave up a 1st to get a 2nd round player.

QB values are in the 1st, Clausen was selected in the 2nd. I don't see your point.

Gave up a 2nd for a player who had to not only jump from D2 ball to the NFL, but also change position.

If I were the Owner, I would have had very strong words with Hurney after the 2 RB's in 3 years thing. Then certainly fired him for his gaffes with EB. I would have put a hit on him after the AE pick.

Hurney has a good reputation with the Panthers, just as I do at my workplace. But I can assure you, that if I came in jacked up on coke, naked, and pissing in the corners of the office, I would be fired on the spot.

Hurney has had a good run, but the last 4 years have been unacceptable to me, hence he should be fired.

[Urrymonster]

Hurney has had a good run, but the last 4 years have been unacceptable to me, hence he should be fired.

He should be fired because of your opinions

Face it, he could well be operating under the guidelines set out by JR, or believing in his scouts & HCs evaluations of current and scouted players.

Yes Brown has really struggled, yes Armanti is yet to play much, however to sack him because of these two picks is naivety at its best.

You say it's unacceptable to pick two RBs in the first in 3 years, yet completely disregard that we are the team that leans on the running game the most. Sure you can get running backs who perform later in the draft, but these two are literally two of the best and until this year have been carrying our offense.

P55 is right and you are just trying to twist what you said to prevent yourself from sounding wrong.

We HAVE used OUR top picks on the positions you asked for. Clausen was projected to go as high as the top 5 picks for Christ sake.

The only positions that has has NOT invested our top pick in has been WR & DT. DT is notorious for bust rates in the 1st as they take so long to adjust, I will conceed that we should have been more proactive in securing a WR, however look at the ones picked around where we have had our firsts and the success rate is pretty damn low.

[panthers55]

Ummm negative.

I hate giving up the next years picks in a win now attitude.

EB was undersized and overrated. He slipped into the 2nd for a reason, and we gave up a 1st to get a 2nd round player.

QB values are in the 1st, Clausen was selected in the 2nd. I don't see your point.

Gave up a 2nd for a player who had to not only jump from D2 ball to the NFL, but also change position.

If I were the Owner, I would have had very strong words with Hurney after the 2 RB's in 3 years thing. Then certainly fired him for his gaffes with EB. I would have put a hit on him after the AE pick.

Hurney has a good reputation with the Panthers, just as I do at my workplace. But I can assure you, that if I came in jacked up on coke, naked, and pissing in the corners of the office, I would be fired on the spot.

Hurney has had a good run, but the last 4 years have been unacceptable to me, hence he should be fired.

Good thing you aren't the owner. We could be screwed for years with your logic.

Hurney is a gambler no doubt but just like any gambler you win some and you lose some. Overall he has won on a lot more than he has lost. He may not be the best out there but it isn't like it is too easy to just dial up an instant winner as a GM. He is in the top half of the league I would think at this point.

Certainly not bad enough to fire.

Most of our problems are not his problem and I suspect he is doing exactly what he has been told to do.

[rayzor]

fwiw...i'm not saying that hurney should be fired...i just think that this year he needs to be on a short leash re: trading picks.

if luck doesn't come out, i'm all in favor of trading down a few spots, though if he isn't there then there may not be the market there would be if he did come out.

[frash.exe]

the question isn't just "is Hurney good enough at what he does" it's also, "is Hurney the right GM moving forward considering a potential major change in philosophy?".

[frash.exe]

I don't say too much about the D Will pick, then the Stew pick as I would get flamed hard on here but two 1st round RB's in 3 years was also simi retarted.

and then people will say "Well look at their production". Well poo it isn't that hard to pick a 1st round RB to produce for you, and it doesn't get easier if you've got a good offensive line to block for him. The big problem is their durability, you pick a QB that misses 3 games/year, and people have questions about their worth, but since it's a running back they could miss a lot of games and people will still say they were worthy of the high selection if they produced when they were on the field.

And also, linebacker is probably the easiest position to draft. I couldn't miss on a first round linebacker. All they need to not be considered a bust is if they make a good number of tackles per year. fuging Matt Millen hit on a linebacker when he picked one, and running back Kevin Jones was even productive considering his early career and how he still produced given the lisfranc fracture.

and that's half of Hurney's first round picks. Very conservative selections production wise. I don't really buy that he's this first round wizard considering half the time he made the safest picks you possibly can make if you want to talk about production. Do you call the guy that walks in the Trump Taj and bets on red at the roulette table all fuging night and makes $30 a strategical betting genius too?

[Doc Holiday]

Ok, imo the Otah/Stewart draft was nothing short of Brilliant, but with that said the other two since then '09 '10 drafts are looking to be pretty close to complete failures, both trades when they happened I hated them immediately, I think the pick for Clausen on it's own was a good pick at the moment, Hind sight I know is 20/20 but that pick then was pretty good. now as for Edwards and Brown, dear god what was he thinking, those were two of the dumber picks I have seen in a while, I gave the Edwards pick a little bit of leeway because I liked the Player, but I hated the Brown pick from the moment he was drafted and said as much on here.

[Sandy Claws]

A lot of folks seem to be blaming Hurney for player decisions that he doesn't make alone. They should do a little reading on how the team's personnel decisions are made. Call for his head on a pike for the process if you want, but a lot of folks share blame in the end results.

[Urrymonster]

and then people will say "Well look at their production". Well poo it isn't that hard to pick a 1st round RB to produce for you, and it doesn't get easier if you've got a good offensive line to block for him. The big problem is their durability, you pick a QB that misses 3 games/year, and people have questions about their worth, but since it's a running back they could miss a lot of games and people will still say they were worthy of the high selection if they produced when they were on the field.

And also, linebacker is probably the easiest position to draft. I couldn't miss on a first round linebacker. All they need to not be considered a bust is if they make a good number of tackles per year. f**king Matt Millen hit on a linebacker when he picked one, and running back Kevin Jones was even productive considering his early career and how he still produced given the lisfranc fracture.

and that's half of Hurney's first round picks. Very conservative selections production wise. I don't really buy that he's this first round wizard considering half the time he made the safest picks you possibly can make if you want to talk about production. Do you call the guy that walks in the Trump Taj and bets on red at the roulette table all f**king night and makes $30 a strategical betting genius too?

I am sorry but you have seriously exposed your lack of comprehension on the NFL and the draft, not to mention how you judge a player's worth.

First off, since DWill was drafted, give me a list of running backs picked in the first round that have performed well and are still performing to this day.

Secondly, if you think that linebackers simply need to collect tackles to not be busts then you have no comprehension on the position, nor any clue on how to analyse performance. Landon Johnson racked up a heck of a lot of tackles for the Bengals, but he wasn't a good linebacker. In your eyes Dan Connor must have been having a sub standard season?

Running backs and linebackers SEEM easy to draft simply because they are the stat whores for both the offense and defence. However, what you do not see to realise, is that just because they are picking up stats they might actually be playing pretty poorly. Add in that both positions need to be pretty deep and draft picks at these positions will stick around for a while, even if there are better performing players.

Just because a player is playing, doesn't prevent them from being a bust.

[panthers55]

Ok, imo the Otah/Stewart draft was nothing short of Brilliant, but with that said the other two since then '09 '10 drafts are looking to be pretty close to complete failures, both trades when they happened I hated them immediately, I think the pick for Clausen on it's own was a good pick at the moment, Hind sight I know is 20/20 but that pick then was pretty good. now as for Edwards and Brown, dear god what was he thinking, those were two of the dumber picks I have seen in a while, I gave the Edwards pick a little bit of leeway because I liked the Player, but I hated the Brown pick from the moment he was drafted and said as much on here.

As we have all been educated over the years, it takes 3 years to truly evaluate a draft class particularly at positions like defensive linemen, wide receiver and quarterback which take time to develop. If Brown continues to suck next year and neither the wide receivers or Clausen develop, then I will agree with you. Right now it is too early to tell much particularly with this abysmal playcalling and offensive offense.

[frash.exe]

Ok urrymonster you have no idea what I was saying but ok