Fox to run the defense?

[pantherclaw]

All the reports, was involvement. Mostly on meetings.

I don't care who you are, that isn't taking over the D.

And if that was truly the case, the argument could safely be made that there would be no reason to even attempt to be Trgo back.

As I've mentioned time and time again....involvement, and taking over/running the D are two very different things.

[monstercat]

One thing is for sure. John Fox has either been playing or coaching defense probably since he was about 10yrs old and played his first Pop Warner game. You can't tell me that Fox is allowing his DC to run schemes that he hasn't approved of before game day.

[CRA]

All the reports, was involvement. Mostly on meetings.

I don't care who you are, that isn't taking over the D.

And if that was truly the case, the argument could safely be made that there would be no reason to even attempt to be Trgo back.

As I've mentioned time and time again....involvement, and taking over/running the D are two very different things.

Fox wasn't calling the actual plays....but Trgo was calling plays outlined from a Fox scheme and set of plays based on situations. What exactly do you think Fox was doing when he made his presense known in meetings and this "involvement"? Prior to this year, players already spoke out that Trgo prefers to be more aggressive and there was a reason he wasn't. Why would Fox want to bring in a new guy when he could have Trgo do what he wanted? Fox would have to start fresh and break the back of a new DC into running his lame crap.

[Snake]

No. Not once has Fox taken over the defense. Yet all of you are claiming he's been running it. I'm sick of the bullsh*t.

There is alot of truth in this statement. Glad to see Im not the only one sick of people making it up as they go along.

[Doc Holiday]

IMO on this topic, people are just looking for a reason to bitch about Fox, Personally I think Fox is a great HC he's had the 4th best overall record since he started Coaching in Carolina I believe but this is also his first HC job and he is kinda learning as he goes "think Bill Cower" and Cower had the benefit of a system already being in place for him. Now If we stick with him long enough and the Team is managed well, I have no doubt he will bring us a Super Bowl Championship in due time. and they're are a hell of a lot of teams that would rather be in our shoes with or only worry at the moment is rebuilding the defense with a Great D coach as our HC so you know he's gonna do what is best to get the D back n track.

They have made some mistakes with the offense and have learned from them, but during that time the Defense has fallen into shambles and Now if we can get the defense turned around we can be a force to be reckoned with, And considering how bad our defense was in 2001 and how good it was 2002 I think with the right moves this is still well within the range of possibility.

Now as for the scheme that the Panthers run on defense, there is actually no real issue with it when you have the right players on the defense but the Problem is right now we don't have them on the D-line, and that is where the bulk of the trouble has originated from and where a of the work needs to be done, I think the Problem with Trgovac was the inability to make adjustments to the players they had available to them at the time, like running less zone coverage and being less afraid of the big play and more concerned with just getting them off the field, because nothing is wrong with zone when you have the front 4 to run it but we didn't. and that's where my main problem with Trgovac came this season, and unlike a lot here I didn't call for his head not once until the collapse that happened over the last half of the season, which IMO was inexcusable.

[monstercat]

There is alot of truth in this statement. Glad to see Im not the only one sick of people making it up as they go along.

Fox may not be running the defense, but you're insane if you think that Trgo has been running schemes that Fox doesn't want to run.

It amazes me how so many fans could automatically assume that Fox was handcuffing Henning and Davidson by forcing the offense to play more conservatively, but some of the same people seem to think that he's just been letting Trgo do whatever he wants all this time.

[Doc Holiday]

Fox may not be running the defense, but you're insane if you think that Trgo has been running schemes that Fox doesn't want to run.

It amazes me how so many fans could automatically assume that Fox was handcuffing Henning and Davidson by forcing the offense to play more conservatively, but some of the same people seem to think that he's just been letting Trgo do whatever he wants all this time.

shakes head and walks tries to walk away.

This is flawed on so many levels

If Fox was holding back the great Henning so much then why have his offenses always been Middle of the road at best yet Davidson in his second season has the best offense the Panthers have ever had, and the best offense in the NFL over the last 7 games of the season??? and if you try and pull the talent argument in 03 he had very comparable talent yet the 08 offense was still a lot better.

And what self respecting HC doesn't outline and approve the game plans of his offensive and defensive coordinators, your acting if Fox is the only one that has done this but he's not every single HC in the NFL does this.

Until the last two seasons Fox's Defenses have been just fine for the most Part, but the current problem is coming soley from the D-line not getting the pressure for the scheme to work, as mentioned by Buckner if you think Trgovac ran a lot of Zone, Del Rio ran more, but the diference is Del Rio had a great D-line and right now we don't.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Couple of quality posts, Doc.

[Snake]

Fox may not be running the defense, but you're insane if you think that Trgo has been running schemes that Fox doesn't want to run.

It amazes me how so many fans could automatically assume that Fox was handcuffing Henning and Davidson by forcing the offense to play more conservatively, but some of the same people seem to think that he's just been letting Trgo do whatever he wants all this time.

I never said Fox handcuffed anyone. I think you talk with your opinion but want us all to believe that it is facts when really no one knows how much input fox has on any of the game. Sorry I just dont see how people sling poo every where and hope it sticks.

[monstercat]

Here's Gantt's take, and I agree with him...

http://www.heraldonline.com/665?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3aded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913Post%3a8d9be881-cfea-4b9d-b0cf-d79d700b214b&sid=pluck.heraldonline.com

Honestly, if Trgovac was chiseled and tan and handsome, had perfect teeth and jumped around like Del Rio did and does, I think a lot of people would think differently about him. But because he looks a little like Fred Flintstone and doesn't have that big personality, people view him as somehow less of a coach.

They ran the same defenses here (the ones John Fox told them to), and Trgovac did it with more success. Ask players and they tell you of the pair, Trgovac's blitzed more and was more aggressive. Del Rio had the benefit of coming in fresh off 2001 (and having Mark Fields), so his feats are remembered more fondly than perhaps they merit.

I just think Trgovac becoming a pariah is odd and shallow and troubling all at the same time.

[Gscottnc5]

With so many of you saying everything is point to Fox (even though he didn't take over the defense). Why the hell not just them hire another coach to assist Fox on defense, and Fox actually run the defense himself?

That way yall could have something to base all this bullsh*t on.

Because he is the head coach and he is managing the WHOLE team. Turgo was DC and probably was running the D as Foxy would want it to be run. I hope that the team brings in someone a little more aggressive than the typical John Fox Defense and fox can bend his defense philosophy to be more aggressive

[CRA]

Because he is the head coach and he is managing the WHOLE team. Turgo was DC and probably was running the D as Foxy would want it to be run. I hope that the team brings in someone a little more aggressive than the typical John Fox Defense and fox can bend his defense philosophy to be more aggressive

what if Trgo was the aggressive end of that spectrum?

[mantal]

what if Trgo was the aggressive end of that spectrum?

If that turns out to be true and he controls the defense next year to what they have been for the last couple of years then he will be gone. Everybody thinks that Fox circumvented Trgo's authority and ran the defense, but there is no shred of evidence to back that opinion. Fox freely admitted that he did begin attending defensive meetings with the players last year, but he was quick to point out that he didn't run them, was just an observer and did not override Trgo's authority. Yet, the overwhelming belief remains that he did.

I don't know, I wasn't there. How about we stop calling it a fact when we don't know?

CRA, everything after the first sentence, (which answered your question), was not directed to anyone specifically. Please don't take any offense as none was meant...

[CRA]

If that turns out to be true and he controls the defense next year to what they have been for the last couple of years then he will be gone. Everybody thinks that Fox circumvented Trgo's authority and ran the defense, but there is no shred of evidence to back that opinion. Fox freely admitted that he did begin attending defensive meetings with the players last year, but he was quick to point out that he didn't run them, was just an observer and did not override Trgo's authority. Yet, the overwhelming belief remains that he did.

I don't know, I wasn't there. How about we stop calling it a fact when we don't know?

CRA, everything after the first sentence, (which answered your question), was not directed to anyone specifically. Please don't take any offense as none was meant...

but prior to the midseason collapse(last year).....players did say the defense Carolina ran wasn't what Trgo prefered or wanted to do. I can find the quotes that about w/ the players talking about the schemes Trgo wanted to run at times and that not being was displayed on the field. I would say that is a "shred" of evidence.

Also, sounds to me like you are taking Fox's word. Fox never says what actually goes on.....we have learned that. No way in heck Fox just "sat in" on those meetings like he claimed imo.

No offense taken either, thanks.