Breaking down Hurney's ability to draft and sign free agents

[thunderraiden]

Defense Dan Morgan, Kris Jenkins,Mike Rucker,Brenston Buckner,Deon Grant

Offense kevin donnalley, Jeff Mitchell, Steve smith, Mushin Muhammed, John Kasay

^^^^^^^

-Key players that helped us win alot of games and make it to the superbowl before Hurney got here

We signed Delhomme, Proehel, stephen Davis and drafted Peppers with the # 2 pick.

Not that hard to for any g.m to draft peppers 2nd overall when you have a defensive minded coach.Also i dont want to give Hurney extra credit for signing Davis and Prohel because the argument could easily be made that they didnt come here or even invited here soley cuz of Hurney.

I also ommited in the original post all players drafted by Hurney that are no longer here (very long list of poo draft choices,including the multiple 2nd and rounders he sucked horrendously on)

So from 02 to 08 he managed to draft 10 quality starters and retain them. Thats after 58 picks

03 draft- Gross (8th overall)

04 draft- Gamble (28th overall)

04 draft- Wharton (94th overall

05 draft-Thomas Davis (14th overall)

06 draft Deagelo Willaims (27th overall)

06 draft-James Anderson (88th overall)

07 draft-Beason (25th overall)

07 draft-kalil (59th overall)

08 Stewart (13th overall)

08 Otah(19th overall)

57 total picks over those years and you produced 10 starters still on team, using 7 first rounders and finding 3 others with the remaining 50 picks.

*there are 3 decent ones that have left, peppers,Foster, Witherspoon

The 09/10 drafts are to early to judge fairly. But what we do know is that after his first 7

years of drafting....dont hold your breath tho cuz Hurney already pissed away his first rounders those 2 years and we know outside of the round Hurney's not so automatic

So yes since 02 Hurney has made some good draft choices...He has signed 0 free agents that were contributed more than 3 good years to this team.

So does this really make you think he's a great or even good g.m?

It doesent make me think hes terrible, but he's had 9 seasons and I think its time to give someone else a chance.

You're forgetting M.Moore, Goodson, Munnerlyn, Marshall, Martin/Godfrey (they both add up to one lol), AND HOW COULD YOU FORGET CHARLES JOHNSON???!?!?!!?!?!

[Stroupe-a-loop]

You know a majority of guys you sign and draft in the nfl are there for depth, so I would say it's unfair to say all those guys "sucked" because they didn't play. They were there as backups, spot starters, and special teams fodder which is what they did. Also a lot of those good players are really impressive pickups, getting probowl quarterbacks and runningbacks from the used bin should count for a lot.

I think Hurney has proven to be above average. He is not top five in the league, but he floats around in the tier below that. He has made some foolish trades and some inspired additions. He looks a lot worse this year because we went with young players and no free agent depth. We couldn't afford to lose anybody to be average this season, and we ended up having more than a few injuries.

I would be happy if Hurney stayed, and I would also be happy to get some new blood in there; It is worth stating though that who we get to replace him could end up being a lot worse.

[carpanfan96]

Not gonna concede anything unless you include this year when Hurney is the GM. Or maybe we should only count seasons when the panthers are above .500.

Not saying its not his fault, but I put most of the blame for this season on J.R and Fox...

J.R for cutting salary and not signing at least some cheap veteran help.

Fox for not coaching these guys up with more urgency from the start

[frash.exe]

Ok, so you're telling me, your boss tells you don't sign any free agents, and then fires you the following year because you did what he says, grow up panty fans. Thats what you bitches are becoming, true incarnations of what every rival fans have given us the nickname of.

Who told hurney to trade for armanti

[X-Clown]

Who told hurney to trade for armanti

Darin Gantt

[ForMac]

Mike Wahle

[panthers55]

Defense Dan Morgan, Kris Jenkins,Mike Rucker,Brenston Buckner,Deon Grant

Offense kevin donnalley, Jeff Mitchell, Steve smith, Mushin Muhammed, John Kasay

^^^^^^^

-Key players that helped us win alot of games and make it to the superbowl before Hurney got here

We signed Delhomme, Proehel, stephen Davis and drafted Peppers with the # 2 pick.

Not that hard to for any g.m to draft peppers 2nd overall when you have a defensive minded coach.Also i dont want to give Hurney extra credit for signing Davis and Prohel because the argument could easily be made that they didnt come here or even invited here soley cuz of Hurney.

I also ommited in the original post all players drafted by Hurney that are no longer here (very long list of poo draft choices,including the multiple 2nd and rounders he sucked horrendously on)

So from 02 to 08 he managed to draft 10 quality starters and retain them. Thats after 58 picks

03 draft- Gross (8th overall)

04 draft- Gamble (28th overall)

04 draft- Wharton (94th overall

05 draft-Thomas Davis (14th overall)

06 draft Deagelo Willaims (27th overall)

06 draft-James Anderson (88th overall)

07 draft-Beason (25th overall)

07 draft-kalil (59th overall)

08 Stewart (13th overall)

08 Otah(19th overall)

57 total picks over those years and you produced 10 starters still on team, using 7 first rounders and finding 3 others with the remaining 50 picks.

*there are 3 decent ones that have left, peppers,Foster, Witherspoon

The 09/10 drafts are to early to judge fairly. But what we do know is that after his first 7

years of drafting....dont hold your breath tho cuz Hurney already pissed away his first rounders those 2 years and we know outside of the round Hurney's not so automatic

So yes since 02 Hurney has made some good draft choices...He has signed 0 free agents that were contributed more than 3 good years to this team.

So does this really make you think he's a great or even good g.m?

It doesent make me think hes terrible, but he's had 9 seasons and I think its time to give someone else a chance.

The average life of an NFL player is 3 years so how many guys from 02 and 03 do you still expect to be on the team in 2010?? Plus in this age of free agency players change teams even when you want to keep them. If you look at how many guys we drafted who started and made contributions for at least a year or two the list is a lot longer than you included.

So for example in the 2002 draft Foster, Witherspoon, Wesley, and Peppers all were major contributors to the team meaning they hit on their top 4 picks.

In 2003- Gross, Manning and Morehead were all contributors with 2 of them starters.

In 2004-Gamble, Colbert, Wharton, Carter, and Gaines all contributed with three of them starting in 2005.

With the exception of 2005 which was awful, the drafts have been decent.

In 2006 four of our draft picks are still starters today.

And some of the guys no longer on the team are gone because they were replaced by guys who were drafted more recently who are upgrades.

It is clear your biased posts reflect your dislike for Hurney but before you decide whether he is good or not, pick 2 or 3 teams and see how they did by comparison. Why not pick the teams in the division and see where they all stand by comparison. Frankly I haven't looked into it at all so I have no idea how he would compare just throwing out one possible comparison.

[panther4life]

Only Mickey Loomis with saints has been tenured as long as Hurney. So lets look at his picks vs. ours since 02

Theirs

2010 1 1 32 32 Patrick Robinson DB Florida State

2 2 32 64 Charles Brown T USC

3 3 31 95 Jimmy Graham TE Miami (FL)

4 4 25 123 Al Woods DT Louisiana State

5 5 27 158 Matt Tennant C Boston College

6 7 32 239 Sean Canfield QB Oregon State

2009 1 1 14 14 Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio State

2 4 16 116 Chip Vaughn DB Wake Forest

3 4 18 118 Stanley Arnoux LB Wake Forest

4 5 28 164 Thomas Morstead P Southern Methodist

2008 1 1 7 7 Sedrick Ellis DT USC

2 2 9 40 Tracy Porter DB Indiana

3 5 9 144 DeMario Pressley DT North Carolina State

4 5 29 164 Carl Nicks T Nebraska

5 6 12 178 Taylor Mehlhaff K Wisconsin

6 7 30 237 Adrian Arrington WR Michigan

2007 1 1 27 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee

2 3 2 66 Usama Young DB Kent State

3 3 25 88 Andy Alleman G Akron

4 4 8 107 Antonio Pittman RB Ohio State

5 4 26 125 Jermon Bushrod T Towson

6 5 8 145 David Jones DB Wingate

7 7 10 220 Marvin Mitchell LB Tennessee

2006 1 1 2 2 Reggie Bush RB USC

2 2 11 43 Roman Harper DB Alabama

3 4 11 108 Jahri Evans T Bloomsburg (PA)

4 5 2 135 Rob Ninkovich DE Purdue

5 6 2 171 Mike Hass WR Oregon State

6 6 5 174 Josh (Bernard) Lay DB Pittsburgh

7 7 2 210 Zach Strief G Northwestern

8 7 44 252 Marques Colston WR Hofstra

2005 1 1 13 13 Jammal Brown T Oklahoma

2 2 8 40 Josh Bullocks DB Nebraska

3 3 18 82 Alfred Fincher LB Connecticut

4 4 17 118 Chase Lyman WR California

5 5 16 152 Adrian McPherson QB Florida State

6 6 19 193 Jason Jefferson DT Wisconsin

7 7 18 232 Jimmy Verdon DT Arizona State

2004 1 1 18 18 Will Smith DE Ohio State

2 2 18 50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State

3 2 28 60 Courtney Watson LB Notre Dame

4 5 7 139 Rodney Leisle DT UCLA

5 5 24 156 Mike Karney RB Arizona State

6 7 39 240 Colby Bockwoldt LB Brigham Young

2003 1 1 6 6 Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia

2 2 5 37 Jonathan Stinchcomb T Georgia

3 3 22 86 Willie Grant LB Ohio State

4 4 5 102 Montrae Holland G Florida State

5 5 20 155 Melvin Williams DE Kansas State

6 6 30 203 Kareem Kelly WR USC

7 7 17 231 Talman Gardner WR Florida State

2002 1 1 13 13 Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee

2 1 25 25 Charles Grant DE Georgia

3 2 12 44 LeCharles Bentley C Ohio State

4 3 17 82 James Allen LB Oregon State

5 4 27 125 Keyuo Craver DB Nebraska

6 5 15 150 Mel Mitchell DB Western Kentucky

7 6 14 186 J.T. O'Sullivan QB California-Davis

8 6 24 196 John Gilmore TE Penn State

9 7 13 224 Derrius Monroe DE Virginia Tech

2010 1 2 16 48 Jimmy Clausen QB Notre Dame

2 3 14 78 Brandon LaFell WR Louisiana State

3 3 25 89 Armanti Edwards WR Appalachian State

4 4 26 124 Eric Norwood LB South Carolina

5 6 6 175 Greg Hardy DE Mississippi

6 6 29 198 David Gettis WR Baylor

7 6 33 202 Jordon Pugh DB Texas A&M

8 6 35 204 Tony Pike QB Cincinnati

9 7 16 223 R.J. Stanford DB Utah

10 7 42 249 Robert McLain DB Connecticut

2009 1 2 11 43 Everette Brown DE Florida State

2 2 27 59 Sherrod Martin DB Troy State

3 3 29 93 Corvey Irvin DT Georgia

4 4 11 111 Mike Goodson RB Texas A&M

5 4 28 128 Tony Fiammetta RB Syracuse

6 5 27 163 Duke Robinson T Oklahoma

7 7 7 216 Captain Munnerlyn DB South Carolina

2008 1 1 13 13 Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon

2 1 19 19 Jeff Otah T Pittsburgh

3 3 4 67 Charles Godfrey DB Iowa

4 3 11 74 Dan Connor LB Penn State

5 5 6 141 Gary Barnidge TE Louisville

6 6 15 181 Nick Hayden DT Wisconsin

7 7 14 221 Hilee Taylor LB North Carolina

8 7 34 241 Geoff Schwartz T Oregon

9 7 43 250 Mackenzy Bernadeau G Bentley

2007 1 1 25 25 Jon Beason LB Miami (FL)

2 2 13 45 Dwayne Jarrett WR USC

3 2 27 59 Ryan Kalil C USC

4 3 20 83 Charles Johnson DE Georgia

5 4 19 118 Ryne Robinson WR Miami (OH)

6 5 18 155 Dante Rosario TE Oregon

7 5 27 164 Tim Shaw LB Penn State

8 7 16 226 C.J. Wilson DB Baylor

2006 1 1 27 27 DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis

2 2 26 58 Richard Marshall DB Fresno State

3 3 24 88 James Anderson LB Virginia Tech

4 3 25 89 Rashad Butler T Miami (FL)

5 4 24 121 Nate Salley DB Ohio State

6 5 23 155 Jeff King TE Virginia Tech

7 7 26 234 Will Montgomery G Virginia Tech

8 7 29 237 Stanley McClover DE Auburn

2005 1 1 14 14 Thomas Davis DB Georgia

2 2 22 54 Eric Shelton RB Louisville

3 3 15 79 Evan Mathis G Alabama

4 3 25 89 Atiyyah Ellison DT Missouri

5 4 20 121 Stefan Lefors QB Louisville

6 5 13 149 Adam Seward LB Nevada-Las Vegas

7 5 33 169 Geoff Hangartner C Texas A&M

8 5 35 171 Ben Emanuel DB UCLA

9 6 15 189 Jovan Haye DE Vanderbilt

10 6 33 207 Joe Berger T Michigan Tech

2004 1 1 28 28 Chris Gamble DB Ohio State

2 2 30 62 Keary Colbert WR USC

3 3 31 94 Travelle Wharton T South Carolina

4 5 31 163 Drew Carter WR Ohio State

5 6 31 196 Sean Tufts LB Colorado

6 7 31 232 Michael Gaines TE Central Florida

2003 1 1 8 8 Jordan Gross T Utah

2 2 18 50 Bruce Nelson C Iowa

3 3 12 76 Mike Seidman TE UCLA

4 3 18 82 Ricky Manning DB UCLA

5 4 22 119 Colin Branch DB Stanford

6 5 10 145 Kindal Moorehead DE Alabama

7 7 12 226 Walter Young WR Illinois

8 7 33 247 Casey Moore RB Stanford

2002 1 1 2 2 Julius Peppers DE North Carolina

2 2 2 34 DeShaun Foster RB UCLA

3 3 8 73 Will Witherspoon LB Georgia

4 4 2 100 Dante Wesley DB Arkansas-Pine Bluff

5 5 2 137 Randy Fasani QB Stanford

6 5 10 145 Kyle Johnson RB Syracuse

7 6 2 174 Keith Heinrich TE Sam Houston State

8 7 2 213 Pete Campion G North Dakota State

9 7 47 258 Brad Franklin DB Louisiana-Lafayette

[raleigh-panther]

Hurney has been good. You can micro-analyse each of his mistakes, but you have to realise even the Pats have had monumental blunders (Maroney, letting Seymour go without a replacement). However they were lucky enough to land a hall of fame QB in the 6th round, which as Peyton has proved, will always give you a chance..

One big difference, the Patriots manage to get something from their mistakes and make others pay for theirs (a la trading up to get AE).

The Patriots get rid of players that are a) aging not performing c) don't fit the system d) before they cost a ton of FA money.

They stockpile draft choices and draft young players to replace the ones they lose and pick up valuable cheap veterans to fill in the gap.

....tell me, what did the Panthers get for the only player they had of value? ...and dont' say the contract xxx, the contract fails to Hurney.

[panther4life]

The average life of an NFL player is 3 years so how many guys from 02 and 03 do you still expect to be on the team in 2010?? Plus in this age of free agency players change teams even when you want to keep them. If you look at how many guys we drafted who started and made contributions for at least a year or two the list is a lot longer than you included.

So for example in the 2002 draft Foster, Witherspoon, Wesley, and Peppers all were major contributors to the team meaning they hit on their top 4 picks.

In 2003- Gross, Manning and Morehead were all contributors with 2 of them starters.

In 2004-Gamble, Colbert, Wharton, Carter, and Gaines all contributed with three of them starting in 2005.

With the exception of 2005 which was awful, the drafts have been decent.

In 2006 four of our draft picks are still starters today.

And some of the guys no longer on the team are gone because they were replaced by guys who were drafted more recently who are upgrades.

It is clear your biased posts reflect your dislike for Hurney but before you decide whether he is good or not, pick 2 or 3 teams and see how they did by comparison. Why not pick the teams in the division and see where they all stand by comparison. Frankly I haven't looked into it at all so I have no idea how he would compare just throwing out one possible comparison.

I must admit after scouring how we matched up draft wise against our division rivals since 02 (only saints gm loomis has been with his club as long as hurney) that we have not done as bad as I originally thought. Unfortunately this is not a fair comparison, cuz our division rivals are not afraid to go out and sign or trade for players to better their team. Drew Brees, darrin sharper, Tony Gonzales,Michael Turner,duanta robinson, etc.

It seems as if our division rivals add good positions in the draft that we fail miserably at such as W.R.and D-line

We however have outwitted them in drafting running backs o-line,linebackers.

Each franchise has built their team differently and right now our future looks the bleakest in the division. Granted alot of that blame could be shifted elsewhere, J.R. and Fox.

So I am now willing to give Hurney a pass and see what he does when seperated from Fox and a budget cutting J.R.

But if he really believes in building this team soley thru the draft, I hope he's learned his lesson that it simply cant be done

[panthers55]

I must admit after scouring how we matched up draft wise against our division rivals since 02 (only saints gm loomis has been with his club as long as hurney) that we have not done as bad as I originally thought. Unfortunately this is not a fair comparison, cuz our division rivals are not afraid to go out and sign or trade for players to better their team. Drew Brees, darrin sharper, Tony Gonzales,Michael Turner,duanta robinson, etc.

It seems as if our division rivals add good positions in the draft that we fail miserably at such as W.R.and D-line

We however have outwitted them in drafting running backs o-line,linebackers.

Each franchise has built their team differently and right now our future looks the bleakest in the division. Granted alot of that blame could be shifted elsewhere, J.R. and Fox.

So I am now willing to give Hurney a pass and see what he does when seperated from Fox and a budget cutting J.R.

But if he really believes in building this team soley thru the draft, I hope he's learned his lesson that it simply cant be done

In all fairness Hurney hasn't counted solely on the draft until this year when Richardson went cheap. We typically draft and supplement with journeymen and retreads. It is true that we haven't added big name free agents but honestly we weren't that successful when we did.

But I agree that we could have added some WR and D line guys for example or traded a pick or two and have done better than drafting up to get Brown for example. We really need to spend to find at least 1 or 2 good free agents. But I can't really fault Hurney as much as Fox and Richardson. Most GMs just go out and get the players the coach and owner wants.

[Kevin Greene]

Ok, so you're telling me, your boss tells you don't sign any free agents, and then fires you the following year because you did what he says, grow up panty fans. Thats what you bitches are becoming, true incarnations of what every rival fans have given us the nickname of.

"You bitches"?

How about you go fug yourself.

Not saying its not his fault, but I put most of the blame for this season on J.R and Fox...

J.R for cutting salary and not signing at least some cheap veteran help.

Fox for not coaching these guys up with more urgency from the start

This year probably would have gone better if Hurney had done a better job stockpiling the roster in previous years.

And Fox, yeah, he ain't helping.

Who told hurney to trade for armanti

That voice in his head. Same one that caused Everett Brown I would imagine.

[Johnny Panther]

If you look objectively, Hurney has had decent success drafting 1st and 2nd round players (with a couple of notable 2nd round exceptions at WR, of course). A good amount of GMs have had first round busts. On the other hand, Hurney has not tried to go after a QB in the first round, which usually accounts for most of the 1st round misses.

[Brooklyn Bully]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is more to a GM's worth than just drafting. No back to back winning seasons on his watch speaks volumes, no matter if you blame Fox or not. Three trips to the Playoffs may be good enough for some of you, but not me. Yes, getting a new GM is a gamble, but the fact is we can do better than Hurney. If we ever want to be a top tier team, we need talent at all levels. So he's good, big deal. We need someone who is great.