Fun question about Trgovac

[Cyberjag]

Kemo-Top DT FA '06

Lewis-Top DT FA '06

Peppers-Top 5 draft pick '02

Tyler Brayton-First round draft pick '03

Charles Johnson-3rd round draft pick '07

Thomas Davis-1st round draft pick '05

Jon Beason-1st round draft pick '07

Diggs-above average LB FA '06

Chris Gamble-First round draft pick '04

Ken Lucas-Top CB FA '05

Chris Harris-Safety product imported from top ten Chicago defense

Charles Godfrey-early 3rd round safety.

yea, there's absolutely no talent in there, nothing that'll help make a top 5 defense.

LOL, give me a break. Kemo was a good DT, but not a top DT pickup. Lewis and Brayton were considered busts where they were. Harris was all but cut in Chicago.

Yes, they've worked out here. But you make it sound like our whole defense is stacked with all-pro caliber players. I think we have winners in Beason, Davis, Harris, and Gamble. Kemo would likely start for most teams, just for his presence against the run. Peppers is gone, don't bother including him. Lucas was great in 05, but father time has paid him a visit.

So we have questions at FS, Sam LB, CB, and all across the defensive line. The FS looks good with Godfrey, I think we'll cover our LB with Diggs or Connor, and we might restructure Lucas or we'll have to get a replacement. On the line your guess is as good as mine.

We have talent, but we have needs. Sounds like just about every other team out there, right?

[frash.exe]

LOL, give me a break. Kemo was a good DT, but not a top DT pickup. Lewis and Brayton were considered busts where they were. Harris was all but cut in Chicago.

Yes, they've worked out here. But you make it sound like our whole defense is stacked with all-pro caliber players. I think we have winners in Beason, Davis, Harris, and Gamble. Kemo would likely start for most teams, just for his presence against the run. Peppers is gone, don't bother including him. Lucas was great in 05, but father time has paid him a visit.

So we have questions at FS, Sam LB, CB, and all across the defensive line. The FS looks good with Godfrey, I think we'll cover our LB with Diggs or Connor, and we might restructure Lucas or we'll have to get a replacement. On the line your guess is as good as mine.

We have talent, but we have needs. Sounds like just about every other team out there, right?

lol philly does more with less talent on their defense.

The giants had no name linebackers lining up on either side of Pierce, James Butler and Michael Johnson in the secondary, a fourth round draft pick at DT, do I need to go on?

we've got more first round picks starting than either of those guys, yet they do more with less "talent".

The problem here is nobody expects Fox to be as good as these guys except certain people, despite, you know, him being a defensive coach and all. Coughlin's not a defensive coach, how the hell is he able to field top defense?

Seriously go look at the backgrounds of some of these guys on their depth charts, and compare them to ours.

[panthers55]

I think top 5 every year is an unrealistic expectation, but I'd strive for it just the same. There are 32 teams in the NFL and we're not going to be top 5 in anything every year, we just have to get used to that. Not saying we need to be happy/satisfied with that, but it's just not going to happen every year...

Tell that to Pittsburgh or Baltimore. They have a top 5 defense every year. It is about scheme and finding players who fit that scheme, then coaching them to bring out there best.

We spent 60% of our money on defense and still couldn't do it more than 1 year in 2005. We need one or 2 players on the defensive line and we could be there again. You can look at stats and say he wasn't bad but it belies some realities. We don't have a defense that can routinely shut down the other team and make them adapt to us. Under Trgo we often had poor gameplans and adjustments were hit and miss. How many times did we go out there this year and dominate a team on defense. KC, Oakland and New Orleans the first time. Other than that we outscored them and the offense saved our butts but they scored as well. We had some good stands against Chicago but lots of breakdowns all year. Bend don't break sucks as a defensive strategy. I can only hope that the great exodus is an acknowledgement that things need to change. If the defense doesnt change for the better the next coach to leave will be Fox.

[goodlay]

You can't judge Davidson off one game, the Cardinals game was a failure on all levels, don't just blame it on him. He's the OC, and our offense did extremely well for the most part this year, so I claim it a success. I'd rather have him than Henning, Henning is just too predictable, and you saw it in the Wild Card game when they got dominated by Baltimore. Davidson actually utilizes the TE unlike Henning, and he isn't 100% conservative like Henning was.

[PennCat]

This much i know about Trgovac.

2005 -- Under Trgovac's leadership of the defense, the Defense that year was, statistically speaking, the best defense in the history of the Carolina Panthers. The team made it to the NFC Championship Game.

2003 -- Led the defense to a Super Bowl appearance. Some will say that was Del Rio's defense. I say that is bull. To my recollection, JDR was never at an OTA, mini-camp, training camp, defense meeting, film session, strategy meeting, pre-season game, regular season game, or post season game, and he was never on the side line calling plays or made any adjustements. Every year the teams in this league are drastically different -- just ask the Doplhins and Ravens -- so that Super Bowl caliber defense was Trgovac's not JDR's.

2002 -- The team's D-line that year was the league leader in sacks for a D-line unit (not counting blitzes). Trgovac was the D-line coach that year.

2008 -- Led the defense to a 12-4 record and a division championship. I have heard so much bitching from this fan base about how the defense lost the division playoff game. I say that is bull. In the Panthers Cardinals game, the defense played man-to-man with the DBs and did not blitz the LBs -- they dropped them into a zone coverage. Arizona scored 33 points and Fitz had 160 receiving yards and 2 TDs. In the Eagles game, Jimmy Johnson played the pressure defense you all screamed about and Arizona scored 32 points and Fitz had 160 yards receiving and 2 TDs (he might have scored 3 TDs -- not sure though). Johnson however did not have to deal with 6 turnovers (and 3 of those turnovers gave Arizona a short field). He also did not have to deal with an OC who abandoned the run by the game's 3rd series (do i need to remind you that the running game was the team's strength) and failed to get the ball to the team's primary playmaker. Trgovac did not lose that game. Name me one team that won a game when the offense turned the ball over 6 times! When are you going to acknowledge that we played a damm good football team and give them credit for re-making themselves at the end of the season. Newsflash -- Fitz is a pretty good receiver and Warner is a pretty good quarterback.

Considering the above, I think the Panthers have just lost a good coach. I guess if people bitch and moan from a position of ignorance, the people will ultimately get exactly what they deserve. Way to go fickle Cat Fans!

[MadHatter]

This much i know about Trgovac.

2005 -- Under Trgovac's leadership of the defense, the Defense that year was, statistically speaking, the best defense in the history of the Carolina Panthers. The team made it to the NFC Championship Game.

2003 -- Led the defense to a Super Bowl appearance. Some will say that was Del Rio's defense. I say that is bull. To my recollection, JDR was never at an OTA, mini-camp, training camp, defense meeting, film session, strategy meeting, pre-season game, regular season game, or post season game, and he was never on the side line calling plays or made any adjustements. Every year the teams in this league are drastically different -- just ask the Doplhins and Ravens -- so that Super Bowl caliber defense was Trgovac's not JDR's.

2002 -- The team's D-line that year was the league leader in sacks for a D-line unit (not counting blitzes). Trgovac was the D-line coach that year.

2008 -- Led the defense to a 12-4 record and a division championship. I have heard so much bitching from this fan base about how the defense lost the division playoff game. I say that is bull. In the Panthers Cardinals game, the defense played man-to-man with the DBs and did not blitz the LBs -- they dropped them into a zone coverage. Arizona scored 33 points and Fitz had 160 receiving yards and 2 TDs. In the Eagles game, Jimmy Johnson played the pressure defense you all screamed about and Arizona scored 32 points and Fitz had 160 yards receiving and 2 TDs (he might have scored 3 TDs -- not sure though). Johnson however did not have to deal with 6 turnovers (and 3 of those turnovers gave Arizona a short field). He also did not have to deal with an OC who abandoned the run by the game's 3rd series (do i need to remind you that the running game was the team's strength) and failed to get the ball to the team's primary playmaker. Trgovac did not lose that game. Name me one team that won a game when the offense turned the ball over 6 times! When are you going to acknowledge that we played a damm good football team and give them credit for re-making themselves at the end of the season. Newsflash -- Fitz is a pretty good receiver and Warner is a pretty good quarterback.

Considering the above, I think the Panthers have just lost a good coach. I guess if people bitch and moan from a position of ignorance, the people will ultimately get exactly what they deserve. Way to go fickle Cat Fans!

We won despite our defense this season. We were ranked near the bottom on the league in the second half of the season...we gave up 30+ pts in 6 of the last 7 games.

So, I believe you are the one that is from a position of ignorance. Trgo's schemes were soft...his blitz packages were pathetic...he is gone, and this team will be better for it.

[AKPantherFan]

If he gets a job as a DC in the NFL next year, think his new team will have a better defense than Carolina's? Don't be afraid, go on record here.

No-

I dont even think he will land a DC job.

he better hope he can get back to coaching College if he is lucky.

[PennCat]

Wow! What an impressive rebuttal! You really know your stuff. Tell me, what are your qualifications for evaluating talent and analyzing defenses? Typical short sighted Panther fan -- wholly incapable of apply perspective and analyzing something by its body of work. Don't you just hate it though when the facts get ini the way of your agenda?

[Fox007]

LOL!

You better watch out MadHatter, he is on to your agenda.

I will say though that it was definitely Jakes fault we lost the playoff game, not the defenses.

[pantherclaw]

talent alone, doesn't make a good team. Ask the cowboys, the raiders, etc.

[AKPantherFan]

talent alone, doesn't make a good team. Ask the cowboys, the raiders, etc.

Youre right!

But how many times did we hear this season Fox say: "this is probably the best locker room, blah, blah"

Players all said it too.

Shortcommings= coaches

[pantherclaw]

And how does a good locker room have to do with what I was saying?

A good locker room is one thing, but it doesn't relate that much to what I was saying.

Over all, we've had a good coaching staff. And believe we still do.

Our defense got worn down throughout the season. You can blame what you want. I'm going to spread the blame out on not enough depth along the line, and massive failure to execute throughout the back half of the season.

[rayzor]

This much i know about Trgovac.

2005 -- Under Trgovac's leadership of the defense, the Defense that year was, statistically speaking, the best defense in the history of the Carolina Panthers. The team made it to the NFC Championship Game.

2003 -- Led the defense to a Super Bowl appearance. Some will say that was Del Rio's defense. I say that is bull. To my recollection, JDR was never at an OTA, mini-camp, training camp, defense meeting, film session, strategy meeting, pre-season game, regular season game, or post season game, and he was never on the side line calling plays or made any adjustements. Every year the teams in this league are drastically different -- just ask the Doplhins and Ravens -- so that Super Bowl caliber defense was Trgovac's not JDR's.

2002 -- The team's D-line that year was the league leader in sacks for a D-line unit (not counting blitzes). Trgovac was the D-line coach that year.

2008 -- Led the defense to a 12-4 record and a division championship. I have heard so much bitching from this fan base about how the defense lost the division playoff game. I say that is bull. In the Panthers Cardinals game, the defense played man-to-man with the DBs and did not blitz the LBs -- they dropped them into a zone coverage. Arizona scored 33 points and Fitz had 160 receiving yards and 2 TDs. In the Eagles game, Jimmy Johnson played the pressure defense you all screamed about and Arizona scored 32 points and Fitz had 160 yards receiving and 2 TDs (he might have scored 3 TDs -- not sure though). Johnson however did not have to deal with 6 turnovers (and 3 of those turnovers gave Arizona a short field). He also did not have to deal with an OC who abandoned the run by the game's 3rd series (do i need to remind you that the running game was the team's strength) and failed to get the ball to the team's primary playmaker. Trgovac did not lose that game. Name me one team that won a game when the offense turned the ball over 6 times! When are you going to acknowledge that we played a damm good football team and give them credit for re-making themselves at the end of the season. Newsflash -- Fitz is a pretty good receiver and Warner is a pretty good quarterback.

Considering the above, I think the Panthers have just lost a good coach. I guess if people bitch and moan from a position of ignorance, the people will ultimately get exactly what they deserve. Way to go fickle Cat Fans!

lhe hasn't had consistently good defenses. the defense was impressive the first part of the season but then fell apart.

going to copy and paste this from the other page.

the first 10 games of the year carolina was holding teams to about 290 yards and 15 points per game. then they went to atlanta and they went to giving up just under 395 yards and 29 points per game....most of those yards and points were given up in a half, usually in the 2nd half where they blew huge leads. against zona they figured there wasn't any sense in waiting for a big lead to blow and just decided to give it away in the first half.

the only part of the season that matters is how you finish. things turned bad when it mattered. it wasn't just the one game. it has been a defense that, with the exception of a few instances, failed and got progressively worse. fitz is a good WR and warner is a good QB, yes. but why didn't we stop fitz from getting 160 yards in the first half? they didn't consider him a threat. they let him run wild. they stayed in a zone the first half. they switched up their coverage but it was too late.

blame everyone else if you want but the defense let them control the game. yes the offense gave it away but the defense gave it up all night.

anyway,. whine all you want, trgo is gone. doesn't matter if he is a good coach or not. he wasn't able to consistently get the best out of his players and we need/deserve someone who can.

he may go somewhere else and do well but it won't matter to us. he just couldn't do it here. we have a better chance at being better with him being replaced.

[CRA]

If he gets a job as a DC in the NFL next year, think his new team will have a better defense than Carolina's? Don't be afraid, go on record here.

Yes. We will run the same defense Fox makes his DC runs next year.......Trgo could run his defense or the defense choosen by his next coach. Plenty of players have gone on record way before this past collapse of what Trgo wants to do...and what Fox allows his to do. Trgo is a scapegoat.