Hurney shouldn't be fired for two main reasons

[panther4life]

1. Overall, the good with Hurney outweighs the bad. Everyone is transfixed by the horrors of Everette Brown and Jake Delhomme, but I doubt we'll ever know the full story behind that. For all we know, there might be a reason Fox was kept out of drafting after the 2009 season. Hurney is also fantastic with contracts, something that can't be overlooked..

His free agency track record is horrendous. For every decent signing he's ever made i can show you 3-4 of bad ones he's made and plenty of players that he never even tried to bring in.

I liked the stephen davis and Delhomme signings way back when but come on what has he done lately? He wants to build thru the draft and he's about average when it comes to that, but the armanti trade takes the cake for one of the dumbest moves i've seen for mulitiple reasons. He had faith when he drafted everette that he could take Peppers place (even though he was wrong) so then why did we not trade peppers that year?

2. Most importantly, it sends a terrible message to any potential replacement. Here's a guy that just did what the owner instructed him to do, and on top of that has been paraded out in front of the media every week to be pilloried. The guy has no more swords to fall on, yet has become the defacto face of the franchise in lieu of the owner.

..

There are plenty of people lining up to be head coaches, i mean the raiders,lions, and others dont have that problem so that is a weak argument.

To fire him after all he's done (sacrificing his public and professional reputation for Jerry's vendetta) would basically tell every other potential GM that the owner will flush you down the drain the second it's convenient. ..

We're already going to have enough trouble finding a coach after the way Richardson has handcuffed Fox. Let's not make it a GM as well..

As i said earlier theres no shortage of up and comers and others aspiring to move up in their professional career, wether it be for a gm or coaching job.

And if Fox is as good as some suggest, he and Hurney should have re-signed and went got jobs elsewhere instead of putting up with J.R's recent antics.

[mav1234]

It's not unusual for teams to go from very strong to mediocre record wise from year to year because injuries play a huge role. These last two seasons have really been the end of the "Fox Era" and I think those records indicate that more than they do Hurney's drafting failures.

[panther4life]

It's not unusual for teams to go from very strong to mediocre record wise from year to year because injuries play a huge role. These last two seasons have really been the end of the "Fox Era" and I think those records indicate that more than they do Hurney's drafting failures.

I know unproven college players are not easy to gauge, so i'm giving him a break there, except when it comes to trading future high round picks for a lesser pick, that's unexcusable unless its so we can focus on making a superbowl run..i.e the Stewart/Otah draft.

But 90% of this board flames him for not making any decent moves in free agecny every year, the other 10% say well he's building thru the draft.. Well he's been drafting for 9 years, and we see how well thats working..and half the vets we cut, were not players he drafted so please dont use that argument

[mav1234]

He had faith when he drafted everette that he could take Peppers place (even though he was wrong) so then why did we not trade peppers that year?

I don't even... what do you mean? The franchise year? They were willing to trade him, but he refused to sign his tender until so late into the process they couldn't find a suitor...

We're already going to have enough trouble finding a coach after the way Richardson has handcuffed Fox.

Yeah, right, 'cause all an aspiring coach cares about is how much support a lame duck coach WHO WAS ALLOWED TO SEEK ANOTHER JOB BUT DIDNT LIKE WHAT HE FOUND SO HE CAME BACK had for help. Come on. The candidates won't care about that; these are people that will see what JR has done as an excellent set-up for them. However, our market may hold us back, and what JR is after may keep us from getting the coach some fans want.

We have a great setup here, and getting rid of Hurney WILL set us back. If he has a couple future bad drafts after our new coach is secured then yes, maybe we will get rid of him, but his overall track record has been solid.

Also, I'm confused, panther4life. Are you saying to fire Hurney or not?? I don't understand your last paragraph.

[Fiz]

His free agency track record is horrendous.

actually he and fox were quite good at finding diamond in the rough style players.

http://www.panthers.com/team/history/free-agency-history.html

For every decent signing he's ever made i can show you 3-4 of bad ones he's made

yeah I'm sure you'll get right on this

and plenty of players that he never even tried to bring in.

I liked the stephen davis and Delhomme signings way back when but come on what has he done lately?

free agent wise? nothing, he wasn't allowed to add payroll this year.

He wants to build thru the draft and he's about average when it comes to that,

before the connor injury, 8 of the 11 starters on the third best defense in the nfl were drafted.

last year when they had the best running game, 4/5 offensive linemen, the tight ends, the qb, and both running backs were drafted by him.

but the armanti trade takes the cake for one of the dumbest moves i've seen for mulitiple reasons.

well it's about the only thing exciting anyone this year.

He had faith when he drafted everette that he could take Peppers place (even though he was wrong) so then why did we not trade peppers that year?

everette was an insurance policy in case peppers decided to hold out. the reason they didn't trade peppers in 2009 was because they felt like they were in a very good position to compete, and if not for that jake delhomme meltdown out of nowhere they would have.

As i said earlier theres no shortage of up and comers and others aspiring to move up in their professional career, wether it be for a gm or coaching job.

There are plenty of people lining up to be head coaches, i mean the raiders,lions, and others dont have that problem so that is a weak argument.

I mean hell I wouldn't mind a head coaching job I'll take the Panthers'. I'll even give them a deal.

There's a reason Al Davis had to hire Art Shell away from his bed and breakfast.

And if Fox is as good as some suggest, he and Hurney should have re-signed and went got jobs elsewhere instead of putting up with J.R's recent antics.

If fox had resigned (not re-signed you barely literate cretin) he would have lost around 6 million dollars in guaranteed salary. That ain't smart.

Marty Hurney is Jerry's guy.

[The Saltman]

My Brain Hurts.

[mav1234]

If fox had resigned (not re-signed you barely literate cretin) he would have lost around 6 million dollars in guaranteed salary. That ain't smart.

Marty Hurney is Jerry's guy.

as a note, Fox actually took a look around the league but didn't like what was available to him then. I think the Bills were the only team seriously interested at that point.

also you're right about Hurney and Jerry.

[panther4life]

I don't even... what do you mean? The franchise year? They were willing to trade him, but he refused to sign his tender until so late into the process they couldn't find a suitor...

Yeah, right, 'cause all an aspiring coach cares about is how much support a lame duck coach WHO WAS ALLOWED TO SEEK ANOTHER JOB BUT DIDNT LIKE WHAT HE FOUND SO HE CAME BACK had for help. Come on. The candidates won't care about that; these are people that will see what JR has done as an excellent set-up for them. However, our market may hold us back, and what JR is after may keep us from getting the coach some fans want.

We have a great setup here, and getting rid of Hurney WILL set us back. If he has a couple future bad drafts after our new coach is secured then yes, maybe we will get rid of him, but his overall track record has been solid.

Also, I'm confused, panther4life. Are you saying to fire Hurney or not?? I don't understand your last paragraph.

Your probably confused cuz you helped make my point against fiz, cuz that 2nd quote is from him, not me.

My last paragraph says ya we suck ass right now, from a team that hurney built thru the draft. If coaching is the prob, then as g.m he should have solved that by now

[Fiz]

Yeah, right, 'cause all an aspiring coach cares about is how much support a lame duck coach WHO WAS ALLOWED TO SEEK ANOTHER JOB BUT DIDNT LIKE WHAT HE FOUND SO HE CAME BACK had for help. Come on. The candidates won't care about that; these are people that will see what JR has done as an excellent set-up for them. However, our market may hold us back, and what JR is after may keep us from getting the coach some fans want.

"well this owner intentionally sabotaged the last coach but I'm sure he's over that."

Fox was offered the chance to walk so Richardson wouldn't have to pay him.

[mav1234]

Your probably confused cuz you helped make my point against fiz, cuz that 2nd quote is from him, not me.

My last paragraph says ya we suck ass right now, from a team that hurney built thru the draft. If coaching is the prob, then as g.m he should have solved that by now

You're right, I did get confused. I agree with fiz, if we fire Hurney this year it looks TERRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE for future GMs

As GM, he doesn't have the ability to sole that. Are you dumb? That's up to the owner.

[Fiz]

as a note, Fox actually took a look around the league but didn't like what was available to him then. I think the Bills were the only team seriously interested at that point.

That was nothing but speculation and was never confirmed by anything other than anonymous sources on PFT.

[Mr. Scot]

His free agency track record is horrendous. For every decent signing he's ever made i can show you 3-4 of bad ones he's made and plenty of players that he never even tried to bring in.

Every GM has free agents that bust, but I wouldn't bet the ratio is that high. For one, you can't count guys that don't make the final roster. All teams sign guys and then don't keep them because someone else beats them out. We're no different.

Their opinion is that we should keep Hurney, mine is that we need a breath of fresh air in the FO.

I am not saying that Hurney is the best GM, nor we worst, but has just been for a bit too long. Over his body of work, Hurney has been really good for the Panthers, but the last two drafts, and years of personnel choices have soured him, to me.

GMs don't have the "fatigue factor" like coaches do. Just the opposite, actually.

When a coach has been here forever, guys have heard all his speeches and have seen all his motivational ploys. Even for good coaches, it can get stale. And as mentioned many times, sometimes a coach-team combo just gets to the point where they've gone as far as they can together and they need a break.

GMs aren't motivators. They're evaluators. And sometimes it takes time to build a system - get the right scouts, have a consistent plan in place, etc - and create a winning formula. Mistakes are part of the game, but the longer you're in that role, the more you learn (unless you're Matt Millen, and Hurney isn't).

[mav1234]

"well this owner intentionally sabotaged the last coach but I'm sure he's over that."

Fox was offered the chance to walk so Richardson wouldn't have to pay him.

Fox was offered the chance to work because Richardson wasn't going to renew his contract. I don't think we'll have trouble getting a coach because the coach wasn't fired. He was given multiple options, and he made his own choice.

I don't think we'll have trouble at all. Fox was given more years than most where the FO did do exactly as he said to try to build a superbowl contender and he just didn't seem to be able to get it done near the end.

[Fiz]

Fox was offered the chance to work because Richardson wasn't going to renew his contract. I don't think we'll have trouble getting a coach because the coach wasn't fired. He was given multiple options, and he made his own choice.

it's the same difference, only if Fox walks Richardson gets to save the money he would have spent on him. Firing him means he still gets his money, resigning means he forfeits it, and considering the way the team has been handled this year, I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that finances were the primary motivator there.

Basically daring a coach to quit so you don't have to pay him, especially one who has had as much success and is highly thought of around the league, is horrific and completely without precedent.