Player Evaluation...

[Mr. Scot]

...is made infinitely more difficult by the general situation being awful

It's like trying to determine who's the fastest guy in a group by having the contenders race in knee-deep mud. How do you reliably tell who's the best when everybody has a handicap? And no, the handicaps are not all equal in the case of the Panthers. They vary.

Are Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen both terrible? Maybe, but it's not as simple as you might think to say for certain. That's especially true with Clausen since he's still a rookie. Lots of QBs look bad with poor line play. And what about the playcalling? That hasn't exactly been top notch either.

Are Charles Godfrey and Richard Marshall really that bad? I think so, but even in their cases I have to allow that the situation may make them look worse than they actually are. Could they look better with more pass rush? Maybe, but how likely is that to happen this season? Thus, we can't really get an answer to that question, can we?

To be clear, these factors don't excuse the players' respective mistakes, but they do make the scouting process far more complicated.

There's an old saying that the whole is often greater than the sum of its parts. In the case of the 2010 Panthers, the whole may actually be worse, and it's making the parts look bad.

Keep in mind that there was a time when people thought Randy Moss had pretty much lost it. And while I'll grant that Moss himself was partially at fault for that perception, getting him out of Oakland changed everything.

Evaluating who should stay and who should go will be pretty important this offseason, and in all likelihood a new coaching staff will be doing it. But the sad truth is that the colossal disaster this season has been will make the evaluative aspects of their job that much tougher.

[Brandon]

Honestly it's impossible to judge how good a player is if the scheme itself doesn't work or if the scheme doesn't fit them. I think that's a big problem on this team as the offensive philosophy obviously doesn't work. Defensively it's just as hard because the offense creates tons of issues for them as well. It's just an all-around bad situation where the new coach is just going to have to evaluate these guys all over again to see how they'll fit in his system.

[Mr. Scot]

The PFW article from a few weeks back made it sound like the coaching staff in general was half-assing their way through the season.

If that's true (and objectively speaking, we don't really know) you'd have to factor that into any analysis.

[Proudiddy]

As I posted in the 'send a message' thread, in my lengthy post lol, this whole situation stinks.

This is why I think JR needs to change his habits and address the fans. It appears the players aren't on the same page and operating on different agendas. So many players playing on expiring deals, a coaching staff pretty much doing the same... We have no idea what we're looking at.

Is a guy like DWill taking it easy to avoid injury? Is Moore pressing? What's wrong with the OL? Kalil? The list goes on and on.

If we're going to pay these guys, how do we value them fairly now? This season is a total disaster in more ways than one. There is no way to fairly evaluate these guys.

[Melvin Smiley]

Its the battle in the trenches that's killing us. On both sides of the ball. No pass protection means our receivers can't run their routes. No run blocking means defenses can play coverage the entire game. No pass rush and our db's are left out to dry, a pass rush will make godfrey and marshall look a lot better then they do now. We need stud lineman on both sides of the ball in next years draft. That won't fix everything but it will make us as a team a whole lot better

[Brandon]

The PFW article from a few weeks back made it sound like the coaching staff in general was half-assing their way through the season.

If that's true (and objectively speaking, we don't really know) you'd have to factor that into any analysis.

It's pretty clear to me the coaching staff has no intentions of developing players for a football team for which they won't be coaching for next year. It's a shame because their lack of professionalism ruined not only the season but maybe the careers of several players on this football team.

[Fright]

I'm glad to hear about some one else writing about assumptions that the coaching staff was going through this season "half-assed" (PFW), b/c that's definitely what i see on the field. I can see it now: Pike has a clip board with the plays and gives them to Matt, the defense just doing their thing, all while the coaches are at the water table talking about their future job oppurtunities.

I see a lot of movement on the field, but no force or emphasis on any of the actions taking place. It's hard to blame the players at this point, it's like coming in to a job you hate and your boss doesn't give a rats ass about you or anyone else and no one is held accountable for doing a poor job.

It also reminds me of a high school football team that has no expectations to be good, going to play a high school with a great history of football success and a high standard is to be set by the coaches. The out come of the practice and preparation is left on the field clearly showing the difference. Well, sadly, the Panthers remind me of the first team.

P.S. Richard Marshall IS that bad.

[captfluoro]

I think its quite easy. Keep James Anderson and get rid of everyone else. He's the only one who's doing much this year.

In reality, the offseason is going to be really interesting this year.

[Big Ed]

Maybe the players themself are going at half pace

What better way to get a coaching staff removed .

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

...is made infinitely more difficult by the general situation being awful

How do you reliably tell who's the best when everybody has a handicap? And no, the handicaps are not all equal in the case of the Panthers. They vary.

To be clear, these factors don't excuse the players' respective mistakes, but they do make the scouting process far more complicated.

There's an old saying that the whole is often greater than the sum of its parts. In the case of the 2010 Panthers, the whole may actually be worse, and it's making the parts look bad.

Evaluating who should stay and who should go will be pretty important this offseason, and in all likelihood a new coaching staff will be doing it. But the sad truth is that the colossal disaster this season has been will make the evaluative aspects of their job that much tougher.

Even with other bad teams..with less talent..you see someone developing. Someone is making plays. Watch Cleveland..there's McCoy making something happen.

Watch the 49ers and there is the Oline developing..Vernon Davis making plays..some defensive standouts..even Arron Smith(whos been brutal) shows more life than either Matt Moore or Claussen has this season.

Like with winning..a lot of things have to fall in place..turnovers..schedule.. lucky plays..

Losing like the Panthers are is no different. CBA, expiring contracts(why get hurt?..less than inspiring coaching..all touched on this board extensively.

I do think this is where Fox's conservative approach is KILLING the development offensively for this team. The play-not-to really do anything works with a Rodney Peete veteran laden team to get to .500.. a young team is going to have to relax.

Its no coincidence that when the Panthers offense is actually kind of dynamic its been at the times when the season is out of reach and the play book is opened up. See(2004-Mushin Muhammad big year), the end of the last season...and the end of any season where we get all excited about the offense and it fizzes back to what killed the beginning of each season.

Rookie mistakes, drops...running wrong routes sure...but you watch the Rams..Tampa.. and there is at least an approach to try to compete.

I could have shortened this to get new coaches...but I have no confidence we will get anyone to turn this disaster around...we may be in a Matt Millen-like reign of losses. -I hope not but..:mad2:

[mav1234]

I agree about conservative approaches. but it's not just the conservatism but the refusal to adapt. When you have a struggling QB and a poor running game, you don't run three times into the middle of the line and then chuck it 20-40 yards. It just doesn't seem like the coaches are realizing they have QBs who are struggling... they just put them out there and expect them to execute a game plan that doesn't seem feasible given the way teams are playing them...

[mountainpantherfan]

Evaluating the players won't be easy but I don't expect a fire sale no matter who the next HC is. Talent is talent and players like Gross and Kalil don't just go from All-Pro to 2nd string overnight.

[blackcat]

I agree with MountainPantherFan, we'll continue to build from the draft, which is great since we'll have an early pick. That being said, little can be expected from this team when the coaching staff is working out an extended '2 week notice.'

[Mr. Scot]

If it were just the dumping of older players, it probably wouldn't be this bad.

If it were just the owner and head coach not seeing eye-to-eye on salary and extension, it probably wouldn't be this bad.

If it were just the lame duck coaching staff, it probably wouldn't be this bad.

If it were just the threat of an impending lockout, it probably wouldn't be this bad.

All of those things hitting at the same time?

It's this bad