Robert Kraft: We're Going to Get a Deal

[Mr. Scot]

he has been handicapped in that process though. He has been given the green light to go out and hire anyone.......anyone willing to come for a 1 yr contract or a 2 yr contract etc. That limits what Fox could do heading into the season. I mean, even if Fox wanted to go out and get a good QB coach or OC heading into this season.......he couldn't

That's not exactly a "limit" placed on him by ownership.

Are you suggesting that they should have extended him? That's the only way this "limit" could have been overcome.

[Mr. Scot]

I get all that. I don't really have a problem with any of the guys we let go, they were all old and on the last leg of their careers. My problem is we didn't do anything else, like DWill, for example. The guy was a TOP 5 NFL RB coming into this season by many accounts... Why hasn't he been offered an extension? Unless it is, as SC suggested, that JR promised it behind closed doors after a CBA was done.

Everyone's saying it was his opportunity to go young, but that's just putting a nice pretty bow and wrapping paper over an empty box. His REAL reasons for the cuts and lack of FA activity this offseason was saving as much money as possible. It was primarily money-motivated, but because much of the money we got rid of was 'old' it made for a good, 'we've got young talented guys we're ready to develop' story. James Anderson IMO was just as good last year, maybe even the year before that, as he is this year. Only improvement he made was perhaps in his coverage... He's cheap, so he's playing now.

Again, I wouldn't have extended anyone that we let go. I don't disagree with those moves, I'm questioning the legitimacy of the motives... And as far as Pep, he turned down the contract last year and said he wanted to come back and sign here after last season and our FO didn't communicate with him at all. It depends on who you believe, and after seeing what else was done money-wise this offseason, I have every reason to believe we didn't offer the contract again and let him walk. I don't have a huge problem with letting him go now, b/c I was excited for what Johnson could do, although he's nowhere near the athlete Pep is... But, then we got Hardy. Again, my problem here is how it was handled. We let him hold us hostage the year before and made no moves b/c he was making $16 Mil. Then, we don't even tag him and trade him for compensation this offseason???

That's why it seems insulting to the fans. It appears as though we made NO attempt to get better, and JR just said, "well, we have to start over... there's no CBA in place, so I don't really care how we do this year... we'll start from scratch when a new deal is in place, this year's a wash." No compensation for Pep. No extensions for our top players still here. No additions through FA outside of ST IIRC... It really seems more like 'I don't care' than 'we're going young.' That's why this has been frustrating.

If we would've at least tried to be competitive through getting some solid FA additions - A vet QB for example, A vet WR (Boldin, Housh, Walters, etc.), etc., I'd have an easier time just accepting a bad season. But, if we would've won, and say, gone on and won the Super Bowl and there wasn't a CBA in place, we still won a Super Bowl, lol... There's no asterisk. I thought the point was to be competitive every year.

Again, I think of the Patriots and Colts. Winners year in and year out. Now the Ravens. Their offseasons seemed to fall in with what they usually do each offseason. The Pats 'go young' every couple of years... They trade relatively young guys (Branch, Seymour, Maroney, Moss) and get picks to build up their dynasty for years to come. When they see a Vet they need, they go get him (Moss, Branch, Adalius Thomas, signed Torry Holt), they still make FA acquisitions. How many different players have played WR for the Colts over the last 5 years or so? The Ravens - build through solid drafts, sign key players at positions of need for fair market value...

I thought our strategy was to build through the draft? Hurney overall has been good at it, but the last 2 years, and maybe 3 have been questionable now. No one can anticipate injury, but trading up again to get Otah... Everette Brown, Armanti... You won't see the Patriots doing that. And again, if anyone needed a #2 WR in the offseason it was us. We never even attempted to go after anyone, other than Wallace Wright.

Sorry for the novel, but I'm just saying, when you put all these things together it's frustrating, and seems there's no method to the madness at times.

Best response to that is this:

A CBA deal will get done. I have no reservations in predicting this. IMO the writing is on the wall that it'll get done and there will be football. I can't think of one team that will be in a better financial position to sign all of it's core young players after the CBA gets done. We will have a ton of money even after locking up guys like Kalil, Williams, and Davis. And even if Fox is gone and the new regime doesn't like his current QB options, we will be able to draft a QB high at probably 1/3 of the cost that STL spent on Bradford. That's just fine by me.

Look at it this way. Dallas spent money and has all this talent and hasn't had nearly the injury problems to key players we have (1-5 before Romo went down), and we'll be in so much better shape than them it's not even funny. Both Dallas and the pundits thought they had built a contender, and they haven't done a damn thing.

I know throw away seasons are tough to swallow, but next year when it's business as usual you will see a Panthers team that is leaps and bounds better than what we have now. And then some quality FA's and depth signings won't be out of the question like they are this year.

[CRA]

Really. Well, we already know you don't like the coaching staff.

Fox can coach.

The oline has sucked this season. You can blame that on whatever.

If we had the running game to lean on, this season would be a lot better.

Without the run game , the offense just isn't good enough to over come the mistakes that are being made.

Yeah, the OL has sucked. Coaches are taking the run away from us.....coaches are simply playing a numbers game our OL can't win this year. Fox isn't countering, he instead continues to do his same old thing.

the offense isn't good enough to execute in scenarios where the chance for success is slim.......opponents gameplan for us and our plays. Fox instead preaches execution. We need a coach that will adapt based on what we have to work w/ and what oppoents are doing. Fox ain't that kind of coach. Fox is gonna bring gameplan A against every team until the game is out hand.

for years opponents have sprinkled in comments about the predictability of Fox.

[Proudiddy]

They also signed Mankins to an extension...not just Brady

That too, and with their history of drafting, I'd think he'd be fairly easy to replace... So they have shown they have been willing to spend money despite no new CBA in place.

Best response to that is this:

Good ideas... I certainly hope you guys are right. I'm by no means a pessimist, it's just hard to be positive about most of what we've seen this year... I hope this is how it plays out.

[Mr. Scot]

Gantt had a pretty good comment on his Twitter page...

They thought this awkward coaching situation would work, given that they've had success here. Hindsight's 20-20.

Essentially, they believed that Fox and the coaches would do their best to show why they deserved to be extended and make the best of things.

Whether or not that faith was justified depends on how much you believe what Pro Football Weekly said a few weeks back.

[Ruff]

Yeah, the OL has sucked. Coaches are taking the run away from us.....coaches are simply playing a numbers game our OL can't win this year. Fox isn't countering, he instead continues to do his same old thing.

the offense isn't good enough to execute in scenarios where the chance for success is slim.......opponents gameplan for us and our plays. Fox instead preaches execution. We need a coach that will adapt based on what we have to work w/ and what oppoents are doing. Fox ain't that kind of coach. Fox is gonna bring gameplan A against every team until the game is out hand.

for years opponents have sprinkled in comments about the predictability of Fox.

The "taking the run away" thing isn't just this year, and if you think it is, you are blind. What did Sean McDermott do to us last season opening game? Loaded the box, and run blitzed the hell out of us, while putting a bracket around Smitty.

Heck, even look back further than that. The New England Patriots in the Super Bowl took away the run from us at the beginning of the game. Their run blitzes forced us into passing the ball in the second half, but, we had a better OC then.

[CRA]

The "taking the run away" thing isn't just this year, and if you think it is, you are blind. What did Sean McDermott do to us last season opening game? Loaded the box, and run blitzed the hell out of us, while putting a bracket around Smitty.

Heck, even look back further than that. The New England Patriots in the Super Bowl took away the run from us at the beginning of the game. Their run blitzes forced us into passing the ball in the second half, but, we had a better OC then.

never said it was a new concept.

right side off our OL is too weak and our WRs are too weak to not adapt more than in the past.

[Snake]

only thing i could see as a deterrent would be the lack of job security we could provide here. any potential candidates would have to know that n contracts would last beyond the 2010 season. even if contracts weren't limited to just beyond 2010, when the HC situation is up in the air and no moves have been made to extend his deal, chances of getting released to make room for the new regime would be high.

this might be something that a lot of good assistant coaching candidates would look at and say, no thank you".

agreed that fox can choose who he wants, but the situation they would be coming into would be less than desirable.

We really only fired one coach this off-season. So where was the opportunity Really Davidson should had been gone last year if not the year before. He has never showed he was a good OC.

Jerry like a lot people knew that a young team needs a good coaching staff and it def was a test to Fox to see how good he and his coaching staff was.

Lets just go ahead and say they are failing majorly.

do you really think that was a consideration when hiring Davidson and Meeks? It seems like there was still a good chance for a contract extension back then if the team performed...

This is true and I agree with that statment. Meeks has turned around a bad unit. Davidson has taken a avg unit and made it worse.

Yeah, the OL has sucked. Coaches are taking the run away from us.....coaches are simply playing a numbers game our OL can't win this year. Fox isn't countering, he instead continues to do his same old thing.

the offense isn't good enough to execute in scenarios where the chance for success is slim.......opponents gameplan for us and our plays. Fox instead preaches execution. We need a coach that will adapt based on what we have to work w/ and what opponents are doing. Fox ain't that kind of coach. Fox is gonna bring gameplan A against every team until the game is out hand.

for years opponents have sprinkled in comments about the predictability of Fox.

'

I agree with you there. Fox is not flexible and it seems most of our coaches are content with just sitting back and getting a paycheck. Davidson is the leader of that team. No way he ever gets a OC job again in the NFL.

[CRA]

'

I agree with you there. Fox is not flexible and it seems most of our coaches are content with just sitting back and getting a paycheck. Davidson is the leader of that team. No way he ever gets a OC job again in the NFL.

I think if Fox wasn't a lame duck we might have seen him bring in a new QB coach and OC this year.

[mav1234]

I highly doubt we would have seen a new OC. QB coach is possible but I somewhat doubt it.

Why don't I think a new OC? Just look at the numbers: We had an amazing rushing offense last year, and once we replaced Jake, we seemed to catch fire on the passing game... The offense became two dimensional and we seemed virtually unstoppable.

It was logical to assume that Davidson's success with the O-Line and passing game would continue with the most important pieces still in tact...

[Jackofalltrades]

Fox has always been reluctant to let people go. We had, by far, the worst ST coach in the league and he mananged to hang around way too long.

[thennek]

I don't think the perceived 'gutting of the team' this year is the root cause of the Panthers problems. Most of the players cut were past their prime, and that backed up by most not being signed (or starting) anywhere else.

IMO the problem this year started a few years ago when the Panthers did not draft to replace Jake (when he had elbow surgery should have been clue), they failed to develop a #2 WR, they never replaced Jenkins, and they missed on O-Line depth (IE,losing Hangman, Robinson not working, etc, and so on). This year, all of these things have finally caught up to the Panthers (with the exception of the D-Line playing pretty well).

Hoover, Moose, Vincent, Jarrett, Lewis, Kemo, Harris and etc would not have made a difference in the problems that currently exist. Lack of developing talent in key areas over the past 2-3 years is the problem with the Panthers....

[CRA]

I highly doubt we would have seen a new OC. QB coach is possible but I somewhat doubt it.

Why don't I think a new OC? Just look at the numbers: We had an amazing rushing offense last year, and once we replaced Jake, we seemed to catch fire on the passing game... The offense became two dimensional and we seemed virtually unstoppable.

It was logical to assume that Davidson's success with the O-Line and passing game would continue with the most important pieces still in tact...

here is my take. We got some new talent and Davidson in 2008.

2008 - Davidson gameplan A. Great talent at RB - great run game. Good passing attack as Smitty feeds off it. Really a unique looks opponents were getting as they really didn't know much about the talent upfront and some new play calls/schemes under Davidson.

2009 - same Davidson gameplan A - repeating 2008 - teams start to figure us out b/c we don't anthing new.....offense takes a step back. Run game was better in 08 despite the Double Trouble splitting stats more evenly and the hype. Pass falls apart. Run game step back.

2010 same Davidson gameplan A - teams recognize we are doing the exact same thing again. Offense takes a greater step back b/c of this......pass and now run game fall apart.

Davidson is almost comical. The same plays he is being bashed on like when he motions a WR in to block which further crowds the box is a staple of his 2008 offense. Only difference is when teams see you doing stuff 3 consecutive years they will start to destory you.

If Fox wanted a new OC or QB coach he couldn't have gotten one this year. I mean, this is the same QB coach who did nothing w/ Quinn and Anderson. Why would you want him to handle almost an identical situation after helping ruin your QB the year before?

[mav1234]

Why do you think Fox wanted to fire him or had any interest in doing so at all? If he wanted him gone, why would he have kept him so far this season???

You say teams "started to figure us out" last year, but I ask how you think that, because I don't see that at all... once the QB change happened the offense got back on track once more. We broke an NFL record ffs, why would you fire the coordinator that did that? Because you think the NFL had "figured him out"? His last three games were great, and one of those three was the most points I've seen a Panthers team score in the Fox era... ever it felt like.

I agree Davidson doesn't seem to adapt to anything, but I think this is really the first year we've seen that to this degree. The previous two years we had spouts of inconsistency but often it was a much clearer picture who was at fault. Even when Jake was beyond struggling, our offense overall was still producing yards on the ground last year in many games.

Don't get me wrong, he's the problem NOW, but I really, REALLY doubt Fox wanted to fire him after last season.