Matt Moore = "It's a big deal man". A leader and another reason to thank him...

[PantherFanForLife]

i'm a panthers fan. not a fan of individual players. if you got out of your moore loving threads you would see that. if you are doing well in the only year that matters, great. if you aren't, then lets fine someone else.

in the offseason, i have tons of confidence in the team...not just in individual players. if they are starting, i feel good about it and stay that way until they aren't doing well. before the season started, i was one of the most optimistic people in here.

i was also fine with moore getting the start. i didn't look at him being the long term answer but i felt like he could be that. i felt the same with clausen. clausen getting drafted let me know that the team wasn't convinced that moore was a long term solution and i shared that feeling. if a position can be upgraded, i think we need to try it. clausen was an attempt to upgrade what has historically been a weak position for us and i was glad that they took a chance on him.

clausen still could become the future of the franchise. same with moore. neither have a solid case at this point, though. i don't really have the patience for either one at this point based on what i have seen from both.

the only thing that moore had proven in '07 was that he was better than carr. last year the only thing he proved was that he was better than jake of '09. sorry, but i have high standards for all positions on the team and frankly i'm tired of having a QB that is just better than a terrible option. again, do you see me pimping clausen? all i did when i was supporting him was talk about his potential which was ll he had that the moment. he hadn't done anything to disappoint yet, which is all that moore had done all year. clausen got in there. he sucked. i moved on. could he do well later? i hope so, but i won't be heartbroken if he doesn't. do i hope moore does more of what he did this week? sure. do i want an upgrade at QB after this season? who wouldn't? i'm not going to settle for moore and i'm not going to make him out to be more than what he is.

i'm not arguing for clausen to be made the starter again this year and i probably won't, mainly because i hate the QB carousel and until moore shows that he can't do the job this year, i'll be fine with him starting.

the problem that the two of you fighting for president of the matt moore fan club is that you only see people as being pro moore or pro clausen. i'm pro "try to get the right guy for the job". moore had done nothing this season prior to yesterday to show that he can handle being the man under center.

before you say "well what had clausen done to show that he could be the man" i would quickly say nothing, expect that he hadn't disappointed yet. i appreciate the win but i want to see more before i have any confidence in him. you can look at just a 1-2 record but i look at the level of suck when he played and there was quite a bit of it. he seriously looked no better than jake did last year and i wasn't willing to put up with that. no fan should.

the faster we got out of that situation, trying to find a better solution, the better. whats worse than failing is not trying to get better. moore had to get pulled or we would be no better off than we were last year. it sucks that we still didn't improve with jimmy but at least we tried and that is one of the few things that fox has done right this year. switching back to moore may have been another one of the few things. we won't know for a while.

So you just continue to prove you give no credit to anything Matt has done in the past seasons with us. Awesome. That means nothing to you. But two games that he played this year is "all year" and is reason enough to judge him by even though now it's becoming pretty f**king obvious how retarded it was to make him out to be a bad QB based on those games.

OTH, you did support Clausen, because he "didn't dissapoint". Now there's logic.

So in other words, you deny the importance of facts, history and reality where Matt Moore started and won more games than he lost as a Carolina Panthers. You refuse to give any weight for those games because the 2 games from this year WIPES all that away. But an unproven guy that has done nothing, deserves every credit in the world.

Sorry, but a record of 6-2 prior to this year, even if it is full of "meaningless games" as you and a bunch of other Clausen fans claim DOES HOLD MORE WEIGHT THAN NO RECORD AT ALL.

So I'll tell you what really happened. You didn't want to consider the possibility that Matt's poor performance had just as much to do with the fact he was playing on a very young, very inexperience and all around bad team when the season started. You didn't want to consider the viewpoint, that because Matt Moore had proved he can win games for us, put up a good performance, he simply could have had two bad games and bounced back to play just as good as he did last year. Instead you wanted to join the crowd that labeled him as a bad QB who would never amount to anything and go ahead and start the Future of The Franchise, Jimmy Clausen. Or let's say you didn't go out of your way to make statements like that, but you sure as heck backed up all the ones that did.

And that's the damn truth.

And if you want me to believe your support for Clausen was based on anything other than personal like and dislike.....I'm Santa Clause.

[mav1234]

Back to the topic at hand, the interview.

I think Moore is very humble, and very honest. He took blame for the INT, said he panicked and though Stew would turn around, but didn't blame it on Stew, saying he was just doing his job. You have to take blame for things before you get better.

But yes, we need to see more of out Moore. We need to beat some better teams or be competitive.

I'd also like to see Moore, or Clausen, with a legit running game, not this thing we've been throwing on the field this year.

Totally agree on every point... with one exception - we have seen moore with a legit running game last season. he did fine.

Would like to see him actually keep doing what he's doing now though, and I think he should be able to with the way our new WRs seem to be emerging.

His description of his int to Stew really makes it clear why he threw so many ints in the past games. As long as he can avoid panicing he should be fine.

About the whole "Moore vs Clausen" bullshit...

I realize this board is full of people who are better talent evaluators than the Carolina Panthers, that know their players better than the coaches and managers, but the Panthers organization has not always been 100% behind Moore. There was a time last year when coaches didn't seem to trust him and players spoke out against him and former players had some pretty damning words for him (Which is why he was 3rd last year at the start of the season). I don't know what brought all that on, but I think that is reflected in the way the team drafted QBs in the draft and didn't try to secure him long term (though that also fits with their long-term plans financially with other players).

I think they are behind Moore for now, but it is also silly to dismiss his two dismal performances as just small slumps that should be completely ignored(but they also weren't all HIS fault). No matter how good a player is, if they start screwing up, fans will start clamoring for a change or saying they've lost it. Just the reality of the NFL... this isn't exclusive to Moore. There are people all over going "WHat's wrong with Drew Brees?!?!" because he's had a few bad games, and other people suggesting that Favre be benched. So... Even some of the established greats face adversity from a fan base.

I also don't think we should dismiss Clausen's bad performance against Chicago, either. That was *bad*. There are reasons for it, though, that help lift some of the blame, just like there were reasons why placing ALL the blame on Moore for his bad showings early is silly. As I've been saying for a while now, I just though the offense sucked too bad no matter who was at QB. They showed me that they could spend a bye really improving, and I was glad for it.

[Carl Spackler]

Totally agree on every point... with one exception - we have seen moore with a legit running game last season. he did fine.

Would like to see him actually keep doing what he's doing now though, and I think he should be able to with the way our new WRs seem to be emerging.

His description of his int to Stew really makes it clear why he threw so many ints in the past games. As long as he can avoid panicing he should be fine.

About the whole "Moore vs Clausen" bullshit...

I realize this board is full of people who are better talent evaluators than the Carolina Panthers, that know their players better than the coaches and managers, but the Panthers organization has not always been 100% behind Moore. There was a time last year when coaches didn't seem to trust him and players spoke out against him and former players had some pretty damning words for him (Which is why he was 3rd last year at the start of the season). I don't know what brought all that on, but I think that is reflected in the way the team drafted QBs in the draft and didn't try to secure him long term (though that also fits with their long-term plans financially with other players).

I think they are behind Moore for now, but it is also silly to dismiss his two dismal performances as just small slumps that should be completely ignored(but they also weren't all HIS fault). No matter how good a player is, if they start screwing up, fans will start clamoring for a change or saying they've lost it. Just the reality of the NFL... this isn't exclusive to Moore. There are people all over going "WHat's wrong with Drew Brees?!?!" because he's had a few bad games, and other people suggesting that Favre be benched. So... Even some of the established greats face adversity from a fan base.

I also don't think we should dismiss Clausen's bad performance against Chicago, either. That was *bad*. There are reasons for it, though, that help lift some of the blame, just like there were reasons why placing ALL the blame on Moore for his bad showings early is silly. As I've been saying for a while now, I just though the offense sucked too bad no matter who was at QB. They showed me that they could spend a bye really improving, and I was glad for it.

:yesnod:

[Swan]

Jeeeez, the Clausen vs. Moore debate is still going on? Moore won, where Clausen didn't. Can we all just move on?

[mav1234]

no, because we have to rehash the past and go crazy about things we can't change. duh.

[PantherFanForLife]

Jeeeez, the Clausen vs. Moore debate is still going on? Moore won, where Clausen didn't. Can we all just move on?

Yeah I'm down for this.

[rayzor]

So you just continue to prove you give no credit to anything Matt has done in the past seasons with us. Awesome. That means nothing to you. But two games that he played this year is "all year" and is reason enough to judge him by even though now it's becoming pretty f**king obvious how retarded it was to make him out to be a bad QB based on those games.

OTH, you did support Clausen, because he "didn't dissapoint". Now there's logic.

So in other words, you deny the importance of facts, history and reality where Matt Moore started and won more games than he lost as a Carolina Panthers. You refuse to give any weight for those games because the 2 games from this year WIPES all that away. But an unproven guy that has done nothing, deserves every credit in the world.

Sorry, but a record of 6-2 prior to this year, even if it is full of "meaningless games" as you and a bunch of other Clausen fans claim DOES HOLD MORE WEIGHT THAN NO RECORD AT ALL.

So I'll tell you what really happened. You didn't want to consider the possibility that Matt's poor performance had just as much to do with the fact he was playing on a very young, very inexperience and all around bad team when the season started. You didn't want to consider the viewpoint, that because Matt Moore had proved he can win games for us, put up a good performance, he simply could have had two bad games and bounced back to play just as good as he did last year. Instead you wanted to join the crowd that labeled him as a bad QB who would never amount to anything and go ahead and start the Future of The Franchise, Jimmy Clausen. Or let's say you didn't go out of your way to make statements like that, but you sure as heck backed up all the ones that did.

And that's the damn truth.

And if you want me to believe your support for Clausen was based on anything other than personal like and dislike.....I'm Santa Clause.

i'm not a clausen fan. not sure how much more clear i can be. i'm a panthers fan who wants the best QB to have the job and i'm not convinced that moore is the best one going into the future. i was willing to see if clausen could do better and he didn't. i moved on.

you're also making a lot of assumptions about me and the way i view clausen and moore.

in '07 i was more than ready for him to take over for carr. i was fine with vinny being in there but when it was obvious his body couldn't handle the stress i wanted moore in there. was there any guarantee that moore would be better than carr? nope. all there was, was hope that he could be better. there was nothing to base it on. only thing we knew about him was that he wasn't totally committed to playing football in college and that he was undrafted and that he was cut from the panthers and that he wasn't here for training camp. there wasn't much to go on but it was worth seeing if we could be better than what we had.

i wanted him to take over early on last year as well. i saw who used to be a decent QB struggling in a big way who was hurting the team. the team showed far too much loyalty to jake and it hurt the season. they should have moved on. was there any guarantee that moore would be better? absolutely not. i mean, aside from a few games where he didn't look horrible a couple years earlier, there wasn't anything to base much hope on. it was a risk and for the most part, it paid off. it was worth seeing if there was a better option, wasn't it?

coming into this year, i felt good about moore getting the start this year and had no reason to believe he would struggle very much this year based on what he had done. only problem was he did struggle and i saw the exact same thing happening this year as did last year and i didn't want to see it get as bad as it did. my feelings toward moore were the same as they were jake. my feelings toward clausen were pretty close to the same feelings i had towards moore when he was the "other" QB. there was no guarantee that moore would turn things around and he hadn't done enough to warrant any long term loyalty or having a leash anywhere near as long as jake had. imo, it was worth seeing if this new QB just drafted could turn this thing around and give the offense a spark. again, thats just my opinion.

regarding my personal feelings towards clausen...i hated the pick. i laughed at seeing him fall through the draft and i literally screamed when they selected him. i was embarrassed. why? because i believed the negative hype surrounding him. i never gave him an honest look. i had a bias against him and i wasn't going to bother seeing if there was any potential there. seeing that he got drafted by my team, i decided to give him an honest look and look beyond my biases against him. from that i saw and read and heard things that impressed me and had me believing there is a good amount of potential.

i still believe it's there though it will probably take a good bit of time for it to be realized if it will be at all (of which i'm not, nor have i ever been, anywhere close to being 100% confident in that). i do think that he has a higher ceiling than moore because of the amount of effort that has gone into his preparation to the league but there is also a much lower floor. he could just as easily be peyton manning as he could ryan leaf. again, i thought it was worth a shot this year to see what he had, esp. since the guy we had wasn't doing any good.

do i want to stick with either guy next year? i'm not sold on either one. it will take a lot more for me to be sold one way or the other on either. i do know that i want better than what we have. i also know that i don't want an underdog. i want an upgrade at QB. i want better than what we have gotten for the past 3 or 4 years and i won't apologize for that and i won't apologize for being critical of someone that has a long way to go to prove he can be a franchise QB.

[rayzor]

Jeeeez, the Clausen vs. Moore debate is still going on? Moore won, where Clausen didn't. Can we all just move on?

neither one has won the long term job, imo. moore may have won the job for the season but at this point, it's quite possible nether he nor clausen will be around once the new regime comes in.

it would be great if either moore or clausen or pike could step up and prove they are the future of the franchise but imo no one has. that said, the debate is old. i'm not arguing for either guy. i just want the best one to have the full time, long term job whether he's on the team now or not.

[TheRealDeal]

I realize this board is full of people who are better talent evaluators than the Carolina Panthers, that know their players better than the coaches and managers, but the Panthers organization has not always been 100% behind Moore. There was a time last year when coaches didn't seem to trust him and players spoke out against him and former players had some pretty damning words for him (Which is why he was 3rd last year at the start of the season). I don't know what brought all that on, but I think that is reflected in the way the team drafted QBs in the draft and didn't try to secure him long term (though that also fits with their long-term plans financially with other players).

Who are the current players that spoke out against Moore? Who are the former players that played with Moore that spoke out against him?

Dan Morgan????????????????? After that came out plenty of guys came to Moore's defense and said Morgan didn't know what he was talking about, Hoover included.

The team drafted QBs because they literally had no one on the roster besides Moore (Hunter was on the PS and not technically on the roster) and no team goes into the season with 1 QB on the roster.

They also have not secured many players long term but it is no indication of the way they feel about them.

That was one of the worst, most biased posts I have ever read on here, and that's saying something.

[mav1234]

Jordan Gross and Dan Morgan said stuff BEFORE he started. After he did, Morgan shut up, and nobody said anything of it. That doesn't make my post bias, it shows what people said at the time. Dispute it all you want, it is what it is. Hoover only came out in support of him after he got the nod as a starter, I think. I'm talking about back when many of us (MYSELF INCLUDED) were calling for Moore to start. We were told the coaches and players felt differently than us.

You rarely draft a 2nd round QB who you think is "nfl ready" if you have a very young starter that you think is going to be great, sorry. If you have faith in your #1, you get a veteran to back him up and a project to sit and learn. The team was Moore's, but the Panthers were preparing for if he fell apart.

I hope he doesn't, but the fact remains there was legitimate reason to doubt he'd turn out to be the "savior of our franchise." Should the Panthers settle for a mediocre QB? I want them to have a QB who can put up numbers like Moore did Sunday EVERY week. If he can, GOOD, but it is clear to me there were people in the organization unsure of him... Nothing is more obvious of that than them pulling him after 2 weeks, anyway.

EDIT: That was my last post on whatever the hell this was. I don't give a poo anymore. Moore looks like a legit starter right now but I want to see more from him. I hope he shows himself to be as great as I hoped he was coming into this season. I like the guy a lot and I really think he can do well.

[grateflday]

Couldn't disagree more. You are saying he felt no pressure last year playing for his NFL career? He plays like poop in those games he is likely done in the NFL. What if your career depended on week to week performance? Would you feel there is no pressure?

In no way, shape, or form were the Seattle, Dallas, second Tampa, NE, Minn, and NY games meaningless. Moore was playing for a job, other teams for playoff position and the playoffs in general. Two times starters sat out, that's it. This year he played in two meaningful games and played two bad games. Played in another meaningful one this Sunday and played great. How is there no pressure on him this past weekend? Getting benched then getting the job back in a contract year means no pressure? The team doesn't feel the way you do. This season is not over. Only terrible fans think the season is over.

Get a clue.

So somebody doesnt agree with you and its "get a clue" and "only terrible fans thing the season is over" I never said the season is over and am the complete opposite of a terrible fan. The discussion is about Matt Moore. I am not ready to annoint him the franchise QB. Just as I was when the season started, I was hopeful he can be a long term solution. Whether or not he has played in a "meaniful" game is a valid one. The guy came out himself and said he felt nervous and a lot of pressure the first two games and look how he performed. He sucked. Compared to yesterday when he was relaxed and didnt feel any pressure, etc. I do think playing opening day, and game two of new season compared to game six when there is absolutely no where to go but up IS a different kind of pressure. The same for the end of season when, yes - you are auditioning for job BUT a win or lose is not going to make a difference on the overall team's season or playoff implications, etc.

So lets agree to disagree and hopefully a miraculous turnout occurs and the Panther are playing in a game that means more than lets just get a win.

[TheRealDeal]

Jordan Gross and Dan Morgan said stuff BEFORE he started. After he did, Morgan shut up, and nobody said anything of it. That doesn't make my post bias, it shows what people said at the time. Dispute it all you want, it is what it is. Hoover only came out in support of him after he got the nod as a starter, I think. I'm talking about back when many of us (MYSELF INCLUDED) were calling for Moore to start. We were told the coaches and players felt differently than us.

You rarely draft a 2nd round QB who you think is "nfl ready" if you have a very young starter that you think is going to be great, sorry. If you have faith in your #1, you get a veteran to back him up and a project to sit and learn. The team was Moore's, but the Panthers were preparing for if he fell apart.

I hope he doesn't, but the fact remains there was legitimate reason to doubt he'd turn out to be the "savior of our franchise." Should the Panthers settle for a mediocre QB? I want them to have a QB who can put up numbers like Moore did Sunday EVERY week. If he can, GOOD, but it is clear to me there were people in the organization unsure of him... Nothing is more obvious of that than them pulling him after 2 weeks, anyway.

Dan Morgan is not relevant to this team one bit so what he says Moore knows means/meant nothing. Dude sounds like a bitter ex player who wants to remain in the limelight. I don't recall Jordan Gross saying anything about him and unless you throw up a link it didn't happen. The only reason Moore didn't see the field sooner was the love affair with Delhomme.

You could in fact make a better argument that they were so confident in Moore they didn't get a veteran and let their veteran go, actually paid him to leave.

You don't draft a backup QB if you are confident in your starter? Tell that to the Packers.

I'm sorry man but that was just a bad post meaning to bash Moore, no other way around it.

[TheRealDeal]

So somebody doesnt agree with you and its "get a clue" and "only terrible fans thing the season is over" I never said the season is over and am the complete opposite of a terrible fan. The discussion is about Matt Moore. I am not ready to annoint him the franchise QB. Just as I was when the season started, I was hopeful he can be a long term solution. Whether or not he has played in a "meaniful" game is a valid one. The guy came out himself and said he felt nervous and a lot of pressure the first two games and look how he performed. He sucked. Compared to yesterday when he was relaxed and didnt feel any pressure, etc. I do think playing opening day, and game two of new season compared to game six when there is absolutely no where to go but up IS a different kind of pressure. The same for the end of season when, yes - you are auditioning for job BUT a win or lose is not going to make a difference on the overall team's season or playoff implications, etc.

So lets agree to disagree and hopefully a miraculous turnout occurs and the Panther are playing in a game that means more than lets just get a win.

So like you say playing for his job but still no pressure? That logic is terrible man. Do you think Moore would have a job if we won all those games 3-0 but Moore had 6 turnovers in each? Do you think he would have a job if we lost all those games 99-98 and Moore threw 7 TD's in each? The team's outcome as you say had no bearing on Moore but the way he played in those games had a bearing on his future and that is pressure. You say he had no pressure in the last game but you do not know that. Obviously the players think they can still make the playoffs so by your own admission there must be pressure on him.

You guys are assuming he feels no pressure and just because he didn't say it in other games doesn't mean it wasn't there.

[Catdaddy]

Who are the current players that spoke out against Moore? Who are the former players that played with Moore that spoke out against him?

Dan Morgan????????????????? After that came out plenty of guys came to Moore's defense and said Morgan didn't know what he was talking about, Hoover included.

The team drafted QBs because they literally had no one on the roster besides Moore (Hunter was on the PS and not technically on the roster) and no team goes into the season with 1 QB on the roster.

They also have not secured many players long term but it is no indication of the way they feel about them.

That was one of the worst, most biased posts I have ever read on here, and that's saying something.

What players defended Morgan's statements? Put a link to it, or it's not true