Chargers struggles...

[tarheelpride]

I still can't believe how this team is #1 overall in offense AND defense (heard on ESPN....could be wrong) and be 2-5

Yet the pats are in the bottom third of the league in both offense AND defense, yet they're 5-1.

Weird NFL year.

As to the topic, give me Norv as OC and I'd be ecstatic

[thefuzz]

I still can't believe how this team is #1 overall in offense AND defense (heard on ESPN....could be wrong) and be 2-5

Yet the pats are in the bottom third of the league in both offense AND defense, yet they're 5-1.

Weird NFL year.

As to the topic, give me Norv as OC and I'd be ecstatic

The O and D are playing really well, they just make some of the worst mistakes at the worst possible times.

Some of the players that they have starting, even die hard chargers wouldn't know them. Youth and inexperience is killing them not only in ST, but also at the skill positions.

[Kevin Greene]

Here is my deal with Norv, and the reason that if I were in AJ's shoes I would have made that hire 10 out of 10 times.

If you have a player at the QB position that is one of the very best in the league, at least top 4. And you think that he can give you 12-15 years of stellar QB play, you put him in the best possible situations for long term success. Is there a better HC/OC/QB coach out there than Norv Turner? I personally don't think so.

You hire him, you hope that his past misgivings were just that, and you try to win a Super Bowl. All the while you are having him work day in and day out with by far the most important position on a football team, Head coach, and GM included. If Norv does not work out, you still have 10 more years with your stud QB, who now knows, and I mean really knows how to play the position.

My deal with Norv turner is he doesn't have to be the Head coach to work his magic with the offense.

Dating back as far as 1985 as the WR coach for the Rams he was doing great things with Henry Ellard and Flipper Anderson under the great Ernie Zampese.

He came on board with the Cowboys in '91 and helped win 2 Super Bowls as the OC/QB coach. Troy Aikman did not blume until he was under Norv's guidance.

As a HC Turner has had many opportunities and his teams continue to be poorly disciplined, sloppy groups who most would agree have under achieved based on the talent on the roster. He has done tremendous things around Jim Everett, Troy Aikman and Phillip Rivers.

If Norv is canned after this season and he was put in charge of the Panther QBs and offense Carolina would see things from the offense absent for many years. We should be so lucky as to have him as an OC, as a HC, no thanks.

[Kevin Greene]

Incidentally about the AJ Smith hire of Norv.

AJ waited far too long to fire Schotty after the 2006 season. By then, swaying in the breeze Cam Cameron already left for Miami, and Wade Phillips had gone to Dallas. When Schotty was fired in mid February table scraps were all that were left and Norv got another shot as a HC.

My God, the Chargers went 14-2 in 2006 and Rivers had a bad game his first time in the playoffs losing to the Patriots after 1 year as a starter. AJ then waited and blew out Schottenheimer. I've heard Schotty interviewd recently on 1090AM in SD and to this day he does not know why AJ fired him as Smith refused to even talk to him when they were working together.

[thefuzz]

My deal with Norv turner is he doesn't have to be the Head coach to work his magic with the offense.

Dating back as far as 1985 as the WR coach for the Rams he was doing great things with Henry Ellard and Flipper Anderson under the great Ernie Zampese.

He came on board with the Cowboys in '91 and helped win 2 Super Bowls as the OC/QB coach. Troy Aikman did not blume until he was under Norv's guidance.

As a HC Turner has had many opportunities and his teams continue to be poorly disciplined, sloppy groups who most would agree have under achieved based on the talent on the roster. He has done tremendous things around Jim Everett, Troy Aikman and Phillip Rivers.

If Norv is canned after this season and he was put in charge of the Panther QBs and offense Carolina would see things from the offense absent for many years. We should be so lucky as to have him as an OC, as a HC, no thanks.

To a certain extent I agree with your opinions, however they are a bit flawed.

Norv was being interviewed for a HC position, not an OC position. He wanted to be a HC, and i seriously doubt that he would have left San Fran for anything less than HC.

AJ wanted him to teach Rivers to become an elite NFL QB. He got his wish, in the process Norv has never missed the playoffs, and has never lost in the Wild Card weekend.

This is Norv's last chance at being a HC, and when and if he gets fired I would certainly love for Carolina to bring him in as QB/OC coach.

[Dpantherman]

I want Norv to get fired so he can be our OC. Hes fantastic with Quarterbacks

[Boltergeist]

Incidentally about the AJ Smith hire of Norv.

AJ waited far too long to fire Schotty after the 2006 season. By then, swaying in the breeze Cam Cameron already left for Miami, and Wade Phillips had gone to Dallas. When Schotty was fired in mid February table scraps were all that were left and Norv got another shot as a HC.

My God, the Chargers went 14-2 in 2006 and Rivers had a bad game his first time in the playoffs losing to the Patriots after 1 year as a starter. AJ then waited and blew out Schottenheimer. I've heard Schotty interviewd recently on 1090AM in SD and to this day he does not know why AJ fired him as Smith refused to even talk to him when they were working together.

I think it was Spanos that pulled the trigger on that, I remembered hearing something that Marty wanted to hire his brother Kurt to replace Wade as DC, and Spanos was against that. And we not only lost Cam and Wade, but also the two I think would've replaced them, Chudzinski and Manusky who got hired in CLE and SF to coordinate.

As for the replacement candidaes. First off, it was blessing in disguise that neither coordinator could've been promoted. Cam had the colossal biff for Miami as well as his stint in Indiana, where the only good thing he did in 5 years was recruiting Randle El. Seeing Wade in Dallas should speak for itself. The other candidates: I think Singletary and the Gaslight Square gang might have had some clashes. Ryan's the one I'll wonder about if we missed on. He seems to be the type that likes meshing big personalities together and having them rally around him - which between guys like Merriman, Rivers, Phillips, and Cromartie - there was plenty of.

[Kevin Greene]

If Marty wasn't fired neither coordinator would have been moved to HC of course.

The Marty Schottenheimer interview I referred to is here: http://www.xxsportsradio.com/pages/archive?app=podcast&podcastID=2267

Select the Schottenheimer interview obviousy, mostly the last 10 minutes they get into AJ Smith stuff.

[Kevin Greene]

To a certain extent I agree with your opinions, however they are a bit flawed.

Norv was being interviewed for a HC position, not an OC position. He wanted to be a HC, and i seriously doubt that he would have left San Fran for anything less than HC.

AJ wanted him to teach Rivers to become an elite NFL QB. He got his wish, in the process Norv has never missed the playoffs, and has never lost in the Wild Card weekend.

This is Norv's last chance at being a HC, and when and if he gets fired I would certainly love for Carolina to bring him in as QB/OC coach.

Cam Cameron was the Offensive Coordinator who developed both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. He was also the OC River's 1st year as a starter when they went 14-2. Rivers had 3 years under Cameron before he became the starter his 3rd year.

Norv Turner really had very little to do with Rivers developement, getting there after he was an outstanding Pro. We all know what brees is doing in New Orleans.

Too bad AJ Smith's ego didn't allow Schotty, Cameron and Phillips to give it another go in 2007.

[thefuzz]

Cam Cameron was the Offensive Coordinator who developed both Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. He was also the OC River's 1st year as a starter when they went 14-2. Rivers had 3 years under Cameron before he became the starter his 3rd year.

Norv Turner really had very little to do with Rivers developement, getting there after he was an outstanding Pro. We all know what brees is doing in New Orleans.

Too bad AJ Smith's ego didn't allow Schotty, Cameron and Phillips to give it another go in 2007.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Cam and Wade got hired after the 2006 season. AJ Smith had nothing to do with that. Marty wanted to bring in his brother to run the D, and Dean Spanos did not want that to happen, hence giving AJ the go ahead to fire him.

Now that we have that out of the way, please go take a look at Rivers' numbers in 2006, and compare them to 2007, 2008, 2009, and the start of this season, and get back to me.

Norv has elevated the play of every QB he has had the chance to work with, that is just the way it is. Stop bashing AJ Smith because of some articles in the Bleacher Report.

[Kevin Greene]

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Cam and Wade got hired after the 2006 season. AJ Smith had nothing to do with that. Marty wanted to bring in his brother to run the D, and Dean Spanos did not want that to happen, hence giving AJ the go ahead to fire him.

Now that we have that out of the way, please go take a look at Rivers' numbers in 2006, and compare them to 2007, 2008, 2009, and the start of this season, and get back to me.

Norv has elevated the play of every QB he has had the chance to work with, that is just the way it is. Stop bashing AJ Smith because of some articles in the Bleacher Report.

Lol, do I?

Is Pro Football Refrence wrong about Cam Cameron being the O Coordoinator in San Diego form 2002 until 2006?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CameCa0.htm

You know not of what you speak.

[thefuzz]

Lol, do I?

Is Pro Football Refrence wrong about Cam Cameron being the O Coordoinator in San Diego form 2002 until 2006?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CameCa0.htm

You know not of what you speak.

Good lord.

You were wrong about AJ's ego getting in the way of going at it again in 2007 with Schotty, Cam, and Wade...how in the hell could he have done that? Both Wade and Cam were gone after the season.

You also said that Norv really had very little to do with Rivers' development, and I asked you to look at the jump in his numbers when Norv took over for Cam. They are sooo much better now, and while I will agree that he is older and becoming a seasoned vet, to say that Norv has had very little to do with his success is about as dumb as it gets.

Please...let this one go.

[Kevin Greene]

Good lord.

You were wrong about AJ's ego getting in the way of going at it again in 2007 with Schotty, Cam, and Wade...how in the hell could he have done that? Both Wade and Cam were gone after the season.

You also said that Norv really had very little to do with Rivers' development, and I asked you to look at the jump in his numbers when Norv took over for Cam. They are sooo much better now, and while I will agree that he is older and becoming a seasoned vet, to say that Norv has had very little to do with his success is about as dumb as it gets.

Please...let this one go.

*face palm*

Try to grasp this concept.

Phillip Rivers came into the league in 2004 and worked under Cam Cameron during 2004, 2005 and 2006. 2006 was River's first year as a starter.

Understand that Norv didn't come on board until 2007.

Why is the concept of Rivers being developed for 3 years under Cameron so difficult for you to grasp?

Here's an easier thing to comprehend. As a starter for Schotty/Cameron Rivers went 14-2.

Under Norv he's gone 35-21 during the regular season.

Yes, he has put up some more impressive numbers the last couple years and is incredible this year again. But the Bolts are 3-5.

Rivers is a top 3 QB in the league, but Cameron was the man who prepeared Rivers to start in this league, and he did it extremely well.

As for AJ's ego, if you don't admit that while Smith is very good at judging talent, his ego does sometimes get in the way, then you truly have no clue what's going on in San Diego. His ego has played ouit privately and publically with Schotty, Tomlinson, Jackson, Mcneil and now Merriman.

[thefuzz]

*face palm*

Try to grasp this concept.

Phillip Rivers came into the league in 2004 and worked under Cam Cameron during 2004, 2005 and 2006. 2006 was River's first year as a starter.

Understand that Norv didn't come on board until 2007.

Why is the concept of Rivers being developed for 3 years under Cameron so difficult for you to grasp?

Here's an easier thing to comprehend. As a starter for Schotty/Cameron Rivers went 14-2.

Under Norv he's gone 35-21 during the regular season.

Yes, he has put up some more impressive numbers the last couple years and is incredible this year again. But the Bolts are 3-5.

Rivers is a top 3 QB in the league, but Cameron was the man who prepeared Rivers to start in this league, and he did it extremely well.

As for AJ's ego, if you don't admit that while Smith is very good at judging talent, his ego does sometimes get in the way, then you truly have no clue what's going on in San Diego. His ego has played ouit privately and publically with Schotty, Tomlinson, Jackson, Mcneil and now Merriman.

I am fully aware of how long Cam was in SD, that said, Rivers did not take that "next step" until Norv was in the picture. Cam is good, but he is certainly no Norv. Please don't try to argue that Cam is as good as Norv and Sean Payton. Brees was under Cam as well, and was a good pro, but it wasn't until he got to NO that he became a "great" QB. It's the same with Rivers. And please don't bring up record and compare that with QB play, it's not the same.

Point number 2. Yes AJ Smith has an ego, I can't imagine an NFL GM that doesn't have one. That said, please explain to me exactly how "his" ego got in the way with all of those players....care to throw in Cromartie???

P.S. The answer is, it wasn't ego, it was 4 different things that have put them where they are with these players.

Talent, Money, Orders from the top, and Off field trouble.

I know that you don't want to eat your words, so please explain to me how you would have handled each case.

And you also forgot to say that you were wrong about AJ's ego and giving it another run in 2007 with coaches that were not there any longer.