Chargers struggles...

[Mr. Scot]

Put me in the camp that agrees Turner isn't really built for head coaching. He's not the whole problem (A J Smith needs some blame too) but he's definitely part of it.

Give me a team with Norv Turner running the offense and Wade Phillips running the defense and I'm thinking contender.

Promote either of them to head coach? Oy

[Davidson Deac II]

If the same thing didn't happen every year, Id say it were the players. Same thing every year under Norv, its a trend.

And not only with San Diego, but with all teams Norv has coached. The guy is just not NFL head coach material, and I am not sure why owners keep giving him chances.

[Kevin Greene]

Put me in the camp that agrees Turner isn't really built for head coaching. He's not the whole problem (A J Smith needs some blame too) but he's definitely part of it.

Give me a team with Norv Turner running the offense and Wade Phillips running the defense and I'm thinking contender.

Promote either of them to head coach? Oy

You and I are getting dangerously close on what we think would be an outstanding staff in Carolina. We just need to come to terms on an HC.

[Mr. Scot]

You and I are getting dangerously close on what we think would be an outstanding staff in Carolina. We just need to come to terms on an HC.

Don't think we're gonna agree on that one

I said elsewhere I have my choices, but I'm not of the belief that if we don't get "my guy" we're doomed to fail. I didn't really like the pick of John Fox when it happened, but it worked out okay (till now, anyway).

[thefuzz]

Here is my deal with Norv, and the reason that if I were in AJ's shoes I would have made that hire 10 out of 10 times.

If you have a player at the QB position that is one of the very best in the league, at least top 4. And you think that he can give you 12-15 years of stellar QB play, you put him in the best possible situations for long term success. Is there a better HC/OC/QB coach out there than Norv Turner? I personally don't think so.

You hire him, you hope that his past misgivings were just that, and you try to win a Super Bowl. All the while you are having him work day in and day out with by far the most important position on a football team, Head coach, and GM included. If Norv does not work out, you still have 10 more years with your stud QB, who now knows, and I mean really knows how to play the position.

[Mr. Scot]

Here is my deal with Norv, and the reason that if I were in AJ's shoes I would have made that hire 10 out of 10 times.

If you have a player at the QB position that is one of the very best in the league, at least top 4. And you think that he can give you 12-15 years of stellar QB play, you put him in the best possible situations for long term success. Is there a better HC/OC/QB coach out there than Norv Turner? I personally don't think so.

You hire him, you hope that his past misgivings were just that, and you try to win a Super Bowl. All the while you are having him work day in and day out with by far the most important position on a football team, Head coach, and GM included. If Norv does not work out, you still have 10 more years with your stud QB, who now knows, and I mean really knows how to play the position.

I can understand. But realistically, Norv isn't working out.

[thefuzz]

I can understand. But realistically, Norv isn't working out.

I hear ya, and before this season, most of us would have sworn that Fox is working out.

When is the last time that Norv missed the playoffs?

Not trying to argue, but Norv has been a punching bag for a very long time because the media says so, but I just happen to think differently.

You do realize that Norv was in the AFC Championship game a few years ago right....and beat the perfectly coached (laughter) Colts to get there?

[Mr. Scot]

The league doesn't generally judge a guy by how his team was doing a few years ago.

But accepting that, they were that good then. Why do they stink now? And this is on Norv's watch.

Turner has only two winning seasons out of seven in Washington, and none in Oakland (though in fairness, few people win coaching the Raiders). yes, he's made the playoffs three times out of three with the Chargers, but once was on an 8-8 regular season and only once has he made it past the divisional round (the last time being one and done). His most successful team was the one pretty much left to him by Schottenheimer. They've got loads of talent, but still haven't been able to close the deal.

And then there's this year (ugh).

[thefuzz]

The league doesn't generally judge a guy by how his team was doing a few years ago.

But accepting that, they were that good then. Why do they stink now? And this is on Norv's watch.

Turner has only two winning seasons out of seven in Washington, and none in Oakland (though in fairness, few people win coaching the Raiders). yes, he's made the playoffs three times out of three with the Chargers, but once was on an 8-8 regular season and only once has he made it past the divisional round (the last time being one and done). His most successful team was the one pretty much left to him by Schottenheimer. They've got loads of talent, but still haven't been able to close the deal.

And then there's this year (ugh).

I hear ya Scot.

IMO there are only a handfull of really good coaches in the NFL right now, and while I don't consider Norv even close to that, he is not all that shabby either.

IMO he and John Fox are very very equal as far as I am concerned in the coaching dept. I may get some grief for that, but IMO any coach that makes the playoffs 3 years in a row, and has never lost a game in the wild card game any of those three is not a bad coach.

As far as the talent thing, this is what gets me.

Last season Norv's Chargers were 13-3 because of all of that talent.

This season Norv's Chargers are 2-5 because of Norv.

That poo don't add up. IMO it's either one or the other, and this season, I am blaming it on talent. He is not getting off scot free on this one from me, but I am not crazy enough to turn over the apple cart when you miss the playoffs for the first time in your 4 years as HC.

[Mr. Scot]

I hear ya Scot.

IMO there are only a handfull of really good coaches in the NFL right now, and while I don't consider Norv even close to that, he is not all that shabby either.

IMO he and John Fox are very very equal as far as I am concerned in the coaching dept. I may get some grief for that, but IMO any coach that makes the playoffs 3 years in a row, and has never lost a game in the wild card game any of those three is not a bad coach.

As far as the talent thing, this is what gets me.

Last season Norv's Chargers were 13-3 because of all of that talent.

This season Norv's Chargers are 2-5 because of Norv.

That poo don't add up. IMO it's either one or the other, and this season, I am blaming it on talent. He is not getting off scot free on this one from me, but I am not crazy enough to turn over the apple cart when you miss the playoffs for the first time in your 4 years as HC.

Technically they didn't "win" last year's Wild Card game because they weren't in it. The first game they played was the divisional round, and they lost.

You'll get different degrees of answer as far as whether talent or coaching matters more depending on who you ask. For me, it's a fairly simple formula.

Good coaching maximizes talent. Bad coaching negates it.

A talented team can win, even with bad coaching in the regular season. Generally not in the playoffs though. That's why I was never that big a fan of Dennis Green. The Vikings during his tenure had loads of talent, and wom a lot in the regular season, but always folded in the playoffs. In my opinion, this happened because when talent is equal, coaching is what sways the balance.

(also worth remembering that the AFC West sucks)

[thefuzz]

Technically they didn't "win" last year's Wild Card game because they weren't in it. The first game they played was the divisional round, and they lost.

You'll get different degrees of answer as far as whether talent or coaching matters more depending on who you ask. For me, it's a fairly simple formula.

Good coaching maximizes talent. Bad coaching negates it.

A talented team can win, even with bad coaching in the regular season. Generally not in the playoffs though. That's why I was never that big a fan of Dennis Green. The Vikings during his tenure had loads of talent, and wom a lot in the regular season, but always folded in the playoffs. In my opinion, this happened because when talent is equal, coaching is what sways the balance.

(also worth remembering that the AFC West sucks)

I agree with this 100%, coaching in the playoffs is what can sometimes put you over the hump. Tony Dungy and Norv Turner are almost the same to me as well. Indy got bumped lord knows how many times when they were loaded with talent, and happened to get "lucky" one year when the D held up.

Coaches like Dungy, and Cowher, and for that matter Norv are a few plays and a couple of injuries from being let downs or great coaches, it's just a couple of plays here or there.

Indy, like San Diego believes that if you win enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs at some point you will get lucky and be healthy and will win it all. I happen to agree with this assessment, hence me liking Norv more than most out there.

[Davidson Deac II]

Dungy at least built the team that won a Superbowl for Tampa Bay. I don't think Norv can take credit for building any team as a head coach.

[thefuzz]

Dungy at least built the team that won a Superbowl for Tampa Bay. I don't think Norv can take credit for building any team as a head coach.

Polian/Dungy

Smith/Turner

Who is building these teams?

[thefuzz]

Dungy at least built the team that won a Superbowl for Tampa Bay. I don't think Norv can take credit for building any team as a head coach.

Yes, but the arguement is Dungy and Norv, and most argue that Norv cannot win a SB. Well, Dungy couldn't either with a SB team, if that's the way you look at it.

I actually think that Dungy is really overrated, and Turner is really underrated as HC's. I think that neither is a great coach.