Smitty returns to practice

[mav1234]

You still haven't provided any reasons as to why you think I'm wrong besides the fact that you think Steve is a "team" guy which can be debated but using your logic, how does being hurt and only getting 33 yards help the team? Knowing Moore gets him into the endzone and puts up points helps the team as well.

If you don't think there is some correlation than you are ignoring it because you don't want to realize it.

I've shown you two concrete pieces of evidence that would lead someone to believe he would try and come back sooner if Moore was the QB. You have shown none that support that he wouldn't.

Why I think you're wrong?

Because Smith has been quoted as saying that other people getting the ball, if it wins them games, is good. In my mind, this shows a desire to compete and win, not a desire to compete and make himself look good. Therefore, I think Smith would be satisfied competing to the best of his ability no matter who is QB. He will complain more if he thinks the QB isn't done enough.

You have not shown ANY evidence that Smith rushed his injury back. How do you not get this?? All you showed was that Moore and Smith have better chemistry than Clausen and Smith. It is conjecture to read into that any more than that. On the other hand, I have a quote from Steve Smith during a period in which he wasn't getting the most throws in which he stated it wasn't a big deal.

Mine directly contradicts yours... nevermind that your "evidence" doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand.

Here are examples of evidence Smith rushed back early to play with Moore:

1) Moore saying Smith rushed back earlier to catch balls from him.

2) Smith saying he rushed back earlier.

3) A person "in the know" saying that was true.

Do we have any of those three? No. In fact, we have quite the opposite so far.

There's a huge difference between presenting stats and anecdotal evidence about how a player feels about another player and saying those feelings are causing that player to rush himself back from an injury.

[TheRealDeal]

So again you can't read a situation just by observing? You need to be told what is happening to understand a situation? Your life must be hard because I know I don't walk around telling me things I should be able to figure out on my own.

Second, what about coming back to practice in less than 3 weeks when the injury he received generally takes 4-6?

Again, Dpantherman I never said he faked the injury but rather that he might give it a go if he was questionable because he would be more productive with Moore in the game. If you can't see how those dots connect than we're not going to agree. I understand that correlation does not mean causation but it is something to consider, that is all.

How do you know I am not that person "in the know"? So far I've said a few things that have turned out to be right and suggested a few others. I have shown a detailed knowledge of both players backgrounds including their high school days.

[mav1234]

I like the fact that Smith himself has said two things about his supposed issues with Clausen and both are being disregarded by people because they believe they are "in the know."

In the preseason, he said it was nonsense and had no issue with him.

In the regular season, he said he wasn't about to "go off." He said he thought Clausen was doing a good job and was "learning a lot of things."

I'm not disputing he likes Moore, I'm just saying that the idea that there's this huge gulf between Smith and Clausen doesn't hold water. Even if it does, it's another leap to assume Smith is the kind of guy that would deliberately hold out playing over it.

I can read a situation by observing. I can also read what people say, and believe that someone like Smith is authentic enough that he wouldn't completely lie to the media. Maybe you think he's a liar, and hey, it's your right to think that. Me? Personally I think Smith is a fiery individual, but he tells it like it is. This has lead me to believe that he would NOT fake/prolong an injury (which is what you are saying he would do; If he is healthy enough to play according to the medical staff, he's healthy enough to play, so he'd obviously be pretending it was worse than it was with Clausen under your dream scenario).

How do I know you're not a person in the know? Because someone who actually is "in the know" wouldn't be sitting on a forum counting the number of times their "predictions" came true. Yipee, Fox went back to a veteran. First time THATS ever happened. Woo, a star player comes back from an injury before. Unheard of. What's your third prediction you were harping about earlier?

Smith's quote from last month. Go ahead, call him a liar.

“I think Jimmy, like everybody else, would like to take some throws back, (and change) some decision making,” Smith said. “Myself, I feel the same way. In a loss it’s hard to have positives because you didn’t do a good enough job to have positives. But I think he did very good and he learned a lot of things.”

That quote certainly reads as "MAN IM GONNA FAKE AN INJURY TO GET AWAY FROM THIS DUDE ASAP MAAAN"

[cdandi1]

imma take a dump on this thread. that is all.

[TheRealDeal]

Even if it does, it's another leap to assume Smith is the kind of guy that would deliberately hold out playing over it.

Where did I say he would deliberately hold out of playing?

Edit: You know he had to come out and say those things because speaking your mind in this organization gets you fired so he had to save face and toe the company line.

[Dpantherman]

So again you can't read a situation just by observing? You need to be told what is happening to understand a situation? Your life must be hard because I know I don't walk around telling me things I should be able to figure out on my own.

Second, what about coming back to practice in less than 3 weeks when the injury he received generally takes 4-6?

Again, Dpantherman I never said he faked the injury but rather that he might give it a go if he was questionable because he would be more productive with Moore in the game. If you can't see how those dots connect than we're not going to agree. I understand that correlation does not mean causation but it is something to consider, that is all.

How do you know I am not that person "in the know"? So far I've said a few things that have turned out to be right and suggested a few others. I have shown a detailed knowledge of both players backgrounds including their high school days.

ok, mr. insider

[E CaT PanTHer]

Do you know what was said in this "argument"? no. Do your stats prove that Steve Smith doesn't like to or want to play football with Jimmy Clausen? no. Has anyone heard Steve Smith say that he doesn't like or want to play with Jimmy Clausen? no. So yes, your stats are meaningless.

You may be right, there's nothing concrete to say Smitty for sure didn't want Clausen as the QB. But instead of stats and hard facts, you know there is such a thing as common sense and logic.

First off, I remember watching when Smitty got injured. I'm not saying he faked it at all, but just watching it again, It didn't look like there was much contact made with his ankle. He didn't grab it at all, and initially it looked like he was about to get up, and then decided not to and stayed on the ground. I was on gameday chat and I remember some people saying, "How did Smitty get injured on that play?" If you remember, the first thrown ball to him came mid 3rd quarter. He wasn't even targeted once before that. Maybe that all factors in, maybe not. Was the injury that severe that it required him to be carted off? I'm not sure. You watch it again and be the judge.

Add that to the fact he was initially ruled out this week, then Fox makes the change to Moore, and all of a sudden he's back at practice. Every single website I visited said Smitty was going to be out at least one more week. So why did that suddenly change?

Add that to the fact that high ankle sprains usually take 4-6 weeks to recover from, but Smitty's back after 3.

Yes Smitty wants to win. But like I said earlier, if you're not winning and on top of that you're not giving your star WR the ball, anyones going to be frustrated. He's always been a competitor, but we all know damn well how much he likes to get the ball too. All I'm saying is the severity of the injury could have easily been exaggerated and all the signs point to that. Yes there is nothing concrete to say it was, but sometimes you have to think a little, add up the pieces to the puzzle, and come to your own conclusions.

[Liminy]

[mav1234]

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-1/Smith-back-from-injury/bea6b21a-c701-4b34-9718-a3868c0c6b81

Go read this news story, and you'll understand all you need to about why Smith was so concerned about it. I'd cart him off too if I thought he'd broken his f'ing ankle again. He makes no mention of Matt Moore. Strange, since Matt Moore improved his ability to heal so much!!

Smith was never ruled out. That was an ESPN story about how it was unlikely he'd play. There's a huge difference between a player being marked as out by a coach and a news organization running with it.

Smith didn't need to "toe the line," and that's bs. He could have said they worked it out or some other crap, instead he dismissed it entirely as an issue. IMO, I don't believe he is a liar. You can if you want.

As to deliberately holding out, it's simple. You have to be cleared to return to practice by medical staff. If you are healthy enough to do so, you can. If you say you aren't healthy enough to do so, you don't. Do you see why he would have had to hold out if you think he wasn't going to come back? Either he's healthy enough to practice, or he's not healthy enough to practice. You guess which it is.

If Otah comes back the week Clausen starts, can we create a thread about how much Otah hates Moore?

[cdandi1]

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-1/Smith-back-from-injury/bea6b21a-c701-4b34-9718-a3868c0c6b81

Go read this news story, and you'll understand all you need to about why Smith was so concerned about it. I'd cart him off too if I thought he'd broken his f'ing ankle again. He makes no mention of Matt Moore. Strange, since Matt Moore improved his ability to heal so much!!

Smith was never ruled out. That was an ESPN story about how it was unlikely he'd play. There's a huge difference between a player being marked as out by a coach and a news organization running with it.

Smith didn't need to "toe the line," and that's bs. He could have said they worked it out or some other crap, instead he dismissed it entirely as an issue. IMO, I don't believe he is a liar. You can if you want.

As to deliberately holding out, it's simple. You have to be cleared to return to practice by medical staff. If you are healthy enough to do so, you can. If you say you aren't healthy enough to do so, you don't. Do you see why he would have had to hold out if you think he wasn't going to come back? Either he's healthy enough to practice, or he's not healthy enough to practice. You guess which it is.

If Otah comes back the week Clausen starts, can we create a thread about how much Otah hates Moore?[/QUOTE]

dude u didn't know? Otah hates moore. I know becuase my buddy who went to school with a janitor a Wofford told me Otah didn't give moore a piece of his cake during lunch at training camp. Gosh u noob.

[TheRealDeal]

If Otah comes back the week Clausen starts, can we create a thread about how much Otah hates Moore?

I hope Otah isn't out for 2 years. J/K buddy. It's different because Otah has never seen having a confrontation with Moore and he was never healthy to begin with. If he had sat out the first two, then played the next three, then got hurt again this week in practice after Moore was announced starter, you might have a point.

Look its pretty simple, not saying it's true or not but you dismissing it without giving it consideration isn't very smart.

Let's pretend that Steve Smith's ankle is 80% healed.

Dr. says Steven how you feeling, "I feel great Doc I'm going to practice today!"

Even though he is not 100% he has returned to practice.

Now he could have also said, "Doc I'm about 80%" and the doctor could have replied, "Well, we are going to hold you out just one more week to make sure you are fully healed."

You see how he didn't lie in either one and there are two different outcomes? It's speculation, that you are correct about, but if you think inside the box you will see how it makes sense.

[E CaT PanTHer]

There is nothing concrete about your "evidence" unless you have some quotes from Steve Smith, your "concrete evidence" is drivel and speculation.

So we should just believe everything we're told? Oh well our government told us this, so it has to be true? Well I heard this on the news, so it has to be true. You act like people aren't capable of lying, exaggerating, and deceiving.

God gave us a brain, to think and to analyze situations. Since we're all capable of lying, you have to put your brain to work sometimes and ask yourself, is this true or is it not? "Don't believe everything your told." Isn't that something we were taught when we were 5. I mean come on.

[Dpantherman]

So we should just believe everything we're told? Oh well our government told us this, so it has to be true? Well I heard this on the news, so it has to be true. You act like people aren't capable of lying, exaggerating, and deceiving.

God gave us a brain, to think and to analyze situations. Since we're all capable of lying, you have to put your brain to work sometimes and ask yourself, is this true or is it not? "Don't believe everything your told." Isn't that something we were taught when we were 5. I mean come on.

Talk about having an original thought, didn't you just repeat what was said a few posts above? Why wouldn't you believe something from the source (you know the person this is a bout...aka Steve Smith himself) rather than someone else's speculation? does that make too much sense? frankly I'm done with this whole thing, because your conspiracy theories are not only ridiculous, but they are mind-numbing. I'm an idiot for keeping this going instead of ignoring you guys a long time ago.

[E CaT PanTHer]

Talk about having an original thought, didn't you just repeat what was said a few posts above? Why wouldn't you believe something from the source (you know the person this is a bout...aka Steve Smith himself) rather than someone else's speculation? does that make too much sense? frankly I'm done with this whole thing, because your conspiracy theories are not only ridiculous, but they are mind-numbing. I'm an idiot for keeping this going instead of ignoring you guys a long time ago.

Hahaha, so you're saying if it's coming straight from the source itself, it has to be true. Well in that case what's the point of using our brains? Lets just believe everything we're told. There's no need for speculation, b/c we live in a perfect world where everyone is honest, trustworthy, and genuine.

Lets just put it this way, with that logic, I'd still be believing in Santa till this day. I used to believe every thing I was told. My parents told me he was real. Santa Clause himself told me he was real (you know those ones at the mall) Also, whatever I wrote down on my Christmas list, Santa came through every time.

So one Christmas I decided to think a little (what's that?). If Santa has flying reindeers, lives in the North Pole, and knows every time I'm being naughty or nice, then he should know what I want for Christmas without me having to write it down, right? So I didn't make a Christmas list that year. In my head, I wished for a LEGO play set, and lo and behold I got one of those Vortex nerf guns.

I was 8, and that was the first year I didn't get what I wished for. Was it b/c I didn't make a Christmas list for my parents to see? Maybe. But I speculated, used my brain a little, and confronted my parents about it. They said he wasn't true. I started crying, and the rest is history.