Isaiah Simmons is still a free agent 6'4 240

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, CatalystNX said:

I agree as a LB, but he probably still goes top-half of round 1 as a pure EDGE.

I have read that he is NOT an elite edge, but to be fair to you and against my point, there is this by Mayock ( I respect Mayock):

 

Edited Monday at 04:10 PM by MHS831

[CatalystNX]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I have been saying, You have to use him properly.  We have no evidence that Evero would--so the risk is a bit higher.  He is not going to dominate a position, but if you use his versatility to give him an unfair advantage (mismatches, element of surprise) that could make him good--which begs the question, could that not also apply to other players with similar skill sets who were not asked to be hybrids in college?  I love Walker the kid and would love to have him if he works out--I am just nervous about it.  Fair to him?  No, but people here who wanted Bryce said his height was not an issue and there is tape of him throwing from his toes--the NFL is a different game.

Eh, I get it but the difference with Walker is there is plenty of tape of him wrecking games off the edge. I don't ever recall seeing Isaiah Simmons do that at safety or linebacker in college.

Personally, I never got the hype with Simmons. There aren't many examples of college hybrid linebacker/safeties going to the NFL and excelling as hybrid players, but there are a number of guys who have made the transition from LB to EDGE. Micah Parsons is the most obvious current day player, but Von Miller did this as well. Khalil Mack did to a lesser extent, too.

[PNW_PantherMan]

7 minutes ago, CatalystNX said:

Eh, I get it but the difference with Walker is there is plenty of tape of him wrecking games off the edge. I don't ever recall seeing Isaiah Simmons do that at safety or linebacker in college.

Personally, I never got the hype with Simmons. There aren't many examples of college hybrid linebacker/safeties going to the NFL and excelling as hybrid players, but there are a number of guys who have made the transition from LB to EDGE. Micah Parsons is the most obvious current day player, but Von Miller did this as well. Khalil Mack did to a lesser extent, too.

The hope that he would be the second coming of Thomas Davis basically.  Turned out he was nothing like Thomas Davis.

[MHS831]

45 minutes ago, CatalystNX said:

Eh, I get it but the difference with Walker is there is plenty of tape of him wrecking games off the edge. I don't ever recall seeing Isaiah Simmons do that at safety or linebacker in college.

Personally, I never got the hype with Simmons. There aren't many examples of college hybrid linebacker/safeties going to the NFL and excelling as hybrid players, but there are a number of guys who have made the transition from LB to EDGE. Micah Parsons is the most obvious current day player, but Von Miller did this as well. Khalil Mack did to a lesser extent, too.

The thing I like most about Walker is his character--he is dripping with leadership and class.  I used to sit in a coaches office when I taught at Walker's high school before Jalon was born---and talk to his dad and the other Catawba College coaches. They showed me film and talked x and o stuff.  I barely remember it, but I liked Bennett, and when Coastal Carolina started their program, he took Jalon's dad with him.  So I have many reasons to want Walker on the team and I know he has a football background better than most.  I think Jalon's father returned to Salisbury to coach Catawba later, when Jalon was born.  I have heard (from former colleagues) that he is a "great kid."   That means a lot.

Having said that, there is a concern that he could bust because he was not always working on his pass rushing moves, etc.  Looking great in college is one thing; as I have said before, people playing 1 role all the time look great in college film, but half of the first rounders bust.  So I have to think of his as a bit more raw than a guy who gets DE/edge reps 24-7.  This does not mean he can't do it; it means I worry that he does not have the depth of training he needs to transition well to the NFL.  He has to be developmental to a degree--so that is where I am coming from-your points are valid, based on selected known quantities, but we obviously are dealing with some unknown variables that should be considered objectively.  That is where I am.

[LinvilleGorge]

I think what folks have to accept is that every prospect can bust. Even the "safe" ones.

[Shocker]

He has been in pretty steep decline the last few years.  I’d pass

[PNW_PantherMan]

This is one case where the Huddle would have taken a bust over the actual pick which worked out.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

This is one case where the Huddle would have taken a bust over the actual pick which worked out.

It was pretty much just the diehard Clemson homers who would've wanted Simmons over Brown. I think most of the talk about Simmons was assuming Brown wasn't going to be available. And honestly he probably wouldn't have been aside from that Combine heart related health concern.

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

It was pretty much just the diehard Clemson homers who would've wanted Simmons over Brown. I think most of the talk about Simmons was assuming Brown wasn't going to be available.

I remember a good amount of people expected Simmons.  I expected us to pick him.  I'm glad we didn't.

[CRA]

swiss army do everything dudes are great for college.  He never had a home positionally in the NFL.   He fit everywhere and yet nowhere. 

[Jay Roosevelt]

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The hope that he would be the second coming of Thomas Davis basically.  Turned out he was nothing like Thomas Davis.

Thomas Davis wasn't a hybrid in the NFL, though. After his rookie season they basically just put him at OLB and that's where he stayed.

Had they tried to turn him into some mythical position that doesn't exist he may have been a bust, too.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think what folks have to accept is that every prospect can bust. Even the "safe" ones.

I always found it fascinating that these experts can watch hours of film doing the same thing you will do on Sundays, interview the player, measure the player, weigh the player, time the player, and then invite the player to your facilities for one-on-ones and private workouts---yet your first round draft pick is a coin toss in relation to probability--it makes you wonder.  Random chance.

So if you see red flags and have concerns about things that cannot be viewed, measured, timed, or tested--things like character, maturity, and desire--you have to wonder how that kid is going to react when you put a few million dollars in his bank account.  How will fame impact him?  I think those might be the most important factors that determine success--we know they have the ability and resumes. 

So I think you have to consider the concerns when they show themselves.  But it is, to your point, a crap shoot, but most good teams hit on their first rounders while bad teams miss.

Edited Monday at 06:50 PM by MHS831

[Tr3ach]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I have been saying, You have to use him properly.  We have no evidence that Evero would--so the risk is a bit higher.  He is not going to dominate a position, but if you use his versatility to give him an unfair advantage (mismatches, element of surprise) that could make him good--which begs the question, could that not also apply to other players with similar skill sets who were not asked to be hybrids in college?  I love Walker the kid and would love to have him if he works out--I am just nervous about it.  Fair to him?  No, but people here who wanted Bryce said his height was not an issue and there is tape of him throwing from his toes--the NFL is a different game.

I just don't like taking a risky gadget player at 8.  I personally feel like 8 is just a really bad spot and we should try to trade back if possible.  All the players that would be really good for us are gone and then the second wave of players that would be good for us are a bunch of equally rated guys who some of them would easily be available at 14 or 15 which is more of their true value if we didn't reach.

[CPF4LIFE]

I remember when people on here were upset we didn't draft him over DB.