Comparing quarterbacks

[panthers55]

The big debate so far has been is Clausen showing progress? It depends on what you call progress.

The facts are that he is completing less than 50% of his passes. In his worse game it was 40%, in his best 52%.

His yards per attempt have ranged from a high of 7.0 to a low of 2.8. So far he has 2 games of 1 Int and 0 Tds and 1 game of 1 TDs and 0 Ints.

He has averaged 90 yards passing a game ranging from a low of 61 and high of 188.

For me he hasn't gotten better yet. Nor is the book written either. But my concerns about him are actually some of the same things he is praised for by others. How can that be??

Much of the debate between Clausen and Moore have been about interceptions which for me are not a great marker of a good or bad quarterback. Obviously TD/Int ratio is a better indicator since at least there is an inherent Reward/Risk ratio built in.

I think that Clausen doesn't take enough risks frankly. His lack of progression for me has been going from a not so hot 5.7 YPA against Cincinatti to a 2.8 YPA against Chicago. That is as much the reason he went from 188 yards to 61 and faced more pressure from Chicago. And it won't go away next week either. The short meaningless passes which result in 3 and outs don't move the chains, don't stretch the field and don't contribute to a good passing game which would open up the running game.

What would be progress to me? Reading defenses and calling audibles at the line, going through his progressions and not so willingly going for a checkdown for 5 yards when it is third and 8. Hang in the pocket and wait for his receivers to clear instead of running at the first sign of pressure or dumping the ball off. Throw the ball down the field even if it gets picked off ( not into triple coverage please).

I don't have a problem with a few picks if we move the chains, score a few TDs and develop a passing attack again. So I wont judge the picks so harshly as long as we get a few TDs and move the ball in the process. The error margin between a pick and completion in this league are very small really. At least he would executing the offense.

[Gazi]

It's all mental IMO. How do you carry yourself after a bad game and if you're willing to improve or just give up and collect your paycheck.

[mav1234]

I felt there was pretty clear improvement through Clausen's games until the Bears game, where I felt like he regressed significantly. I feel that he is already doing quite a bit of what people want him to do, he is just not doing it fast enough, and in some cases, he is not letting plays develop (often because he is having to run for his life far too early, other times because he is expecting to have to when he doesn't - he's overthinking the plays and not trusting his line I think).

I don't really agree that Moore is executing the offense all that well(Nor is Clausen). He obviously takes more risks, which can put his receivers in a position to make plays... but it can also lead to picks very easily, especially when you have a tendency to float deep passes. I don't really think it matters if he throws 2 TDs in a game if he also throws 4 picks. In fact, 2 ints can completely nullify those 2 TDs depending on where they are and when they are. The fact is that it is always better to take care of the ball than it is to turn it over, but there's a lot more than just "did you turn it over?"

Moore has always been good at coming in and cleaning up the crap when it means nothing. If he gets another chance this year, I hope he can do it again for a prolonged period. I like the guy and I hope he has a good future in the league or on this team, I just don't think he's going to have any more luck than Clausen would have at winning us games. He might have 1 more long drive a game, but whether we score 7, 6, 9, or 14, it's not going to be enough to win.

Something major needs to change with the offense, and I don't think the QB is where that change begins, but every little bit will help.

[Jangler]

I want instant gratification! And I want it NOW!

[Jpjr]

The big debate so far has been is Clausen showing progress? It depends on what you call progress.

The facts are that he is completing less than 50% of his passes. In his worse game it was 40%, in his best 52%.

His yards per attempt have ranged from a high of 7.0 to a low of 2.8. So far he has 2 games of 1 Int and 0 Tds and 1 game of 1 TDs and 0 Ints.

He has averaged 90 yards passing a game ranging from a low of 61 and high of 188.

For me he hasn't gotten better yet. Nor is the book written either. But my concerns about him are actually some of the same things he is praised for by others. How can that be??

Much of the debate between Clausen and Moore have been about interceptions which for me are not a great marker of a good or bad quarterback. Obviously TD/Int ratio is a better indicator since at least there is an inherent Reward/Risk ratio built in.

I think that Clausen doesn't take enough risks frankly. His lack of progression for me has been going from a not so hot 5.7 YPA against Cincinatti to a 2.8 YPA against Chicago. That is as much the reason he went from 188 yards to 61 and faced more pressure from Chicago. And it won't go away next week either. The short meaningless passes which result in 3 and outs don't move the chains, don't stretch the field and don't contribute to a good passing game which would open up the running game.

What would be progress to me? Reading defenses and calling audibles at the line, going through his progressions and not so willingly going for a checkdown for 5 yards when it is third and 8. Hang in the pocket and wait for his receivers to clear instead of running at the first sign of pressure or dumping the ball off. Throw the ball down the field even if it gets picked off ( not into triple coverage please).

I don't have a problem with a few picks if we move the chains, score a few TDs and develop a passing attack again. So I wont judge the picks so harshly as long as we get a few TDs and move the ball in the process. The error margin between a pick and completion in this league are very small really. At least he would executing the offense.

Just to be clear, you are not judging picks harshly because they are not a good indicator of progress...and not because Matt Moore has thrown tons of them... right?

[panthers55]

Something major needs to change with the offense, and I don't think the QB is where that change begins, but every little bit will help.

The change has to start at the quarterback which translates to everything else.

Name me one poor performing Quarterback whose team's offense is good.

[Brooklyn Bully]

dear god, when will the madness end!?!?! We're still bickering back and forth about clausen and moore!?!?! This is insanity!!!!! Don't you people have anything better to do!?!?! Build a boat, get a lapdance, play checkers with a blind orphan and cheat, eat some peas, bury your friend in the sand and leave him there, play in traffic...anything other than this pointless qb debate!!!!! PROOF ONE WAY, PROOF ANOTHER, BLAH BLAH f**kING BLAH!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Jpjr]

I felt there was pretty clear improvement through Clausen's games until the Bears game, where I felt like he regressed significantly. I feel that he is already doing quite a bit of what people want him to do, he is just not doing it fast enough, and in some cases, he is not letting plays develop (often because he is having to run for his life far too early, other times because he is expecting to have to when he doesn't - he's overthinking the plays and not trusting his line I think).

I don't really agree that Moore is executing the offense all that well(Nor is Clausen). He obviously takes more risks, which can put his receivers in a position to make plays... but it can also lead to picks very easily, especially when you have a tendency to float deep passes. I don't really think it matters if he throws 2 TDs in a game if he also throws 4 picks. In fact, 2 ints can completely nullify those 2 TDs depending on where they are and when they are. The fact is that it is always better to take care of the ball than it is to turn it over, but there's a lot more than just "did you turn it over?"

Moore has always been good at coming in and cleaning up the crap when it means nothing. If he gets another chance this year, I hope he can do it again for a prolonged period. I like the guy and I hope he has a good future in the league or on this team, I just don't think he's going to have any more luck than Clausen would have at winning us games. He might have 1 more long drive a game, but whether we score 7, 6, 9, or 14, it's not going to be enough to win.

Something major needs to change with the offense, and I don't think the QB is where that change begins, but every little bit will help.

I agree with this, nice post.

At this point I think that Moore has shown more risk taking and some decent drives, and may very well excel more at cleaning up a terrible season.

I don't want to act like Matt can't come in and do some good things.

But I think it's pretty clear in the minds of the coaches that he had his big chance and blew it. During the Tampa Bay game the decision was made that he is not the quarterback of the future in Carolina.

Clausen as a rookie has a lot more time before they make that decision for him. Significantly more time than many here want to give him.

[Jpjr]

The change has to start at the quarterback which translates to everything else.

Name me one poor performing Quarterback whose team's offense is good.

Mark Sanchez would be playing more poorly than Clausen and Moore in Carolina if you have seen him play this year.

[panthers55]

Just to be clear, you are not judging picks harshly because they are not a good indicator of progress...and not because Matt Moore has thrown tons of them... right?

Don't mistake my post as an endorsement of Moore by any means. Didn't you see my comment about throwing it into triple coverage??

A few of Moore interceptions were very bad throws while a few were inconsequential like the hail mary last week. The issue isn't just the pick but the circumstances around it. If you throw a great ball that hits off the receiver's hands and gets picked off, that isn't on the quarterback. But if you force a ball into double or triple coverage it is only on the quarterback.

My point is that Clausen should be willing to take some chances and throw the ball downfield even if it means the ball gets picked off. I would have no problem with a few picks as long as we got a few TDs as well and move the chains. Sometimes a quarterback can be paralyzed because of fear of making a mistake to the point that they are totally ineffective. A QB needs to be safe to a point but you can be too safe as well. If you never throw a pass you never throw a pick but you never throw a TD either. If he won't throw it downfield unless the receiver is wide open, he won't be tossing it downfield much and we won't ever develop a passing game.

Good quarterbacks throw where the receiver is supposed to be and trusts that his guy will be there. If he isn't it is a pick. If he is, then it a great pass. In either case he needs to do his job and what happens, happens.

He just seems too tentative to me right now.

[panthers55]

Mark Sanchez would be playing more poorly than Clausen and Moore in Carolina if you have seen him play this year.

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda.

He has a passer rating of 91 and 8 TDs versus 0 Ints.

Cool Story Bro...................

[panthers55]

But I think it's pretty clear in the minds of the coaches that he had his big chance and blew it. During the Tampa Bay game the decision was made that he is not the quarterback of the future in Carolina.

Clausen as a rookie has a lot more time before they make that decision for him. Significantly more time than many here want to give him.

I don't know that any of that is true. It is much more likely that Fox was cognizant of the fact that he waited too long to pull Jake last year and got plenty of crap for it. I figure he wanted to see what Clausen had plain and simple. he wasn't going to wait for 8 games in the event that Clausen could come in like Moore did and right the ship.

Now he knows that isnt going to happen, he can make his decision accordingly. But I really doubt that Fox is deciding who the quarterback of the future is going to be given Fox is not going to be here next year. If it were his choice it will be Moore. I really doubt he is the main decisionmaker right now.

[Jangler]

dear god, when will the madness end!?!?! We're still bickering back and forth about clausen and moore!?!?! This is insanity!!!!! Don't you people have anything better to do!?!?! Build a boat, get a lapdance, play checkers with a blind orphan and cheat, eat some peas, bury your friend in the sand and leave him there, play in traffic...anything other than this pointless qb debate!!!!! PROOF ONE WAY, PROOF ANOTHER, BLAH BLAH f**kING BLAH!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

What?

[Brooklyn Bully]

What?

What?