Just not smart enough

[magnus]

so what suggests, to try to tie it together, that Zimmer's exceptionally smart?

FWIW, I always felt like Schwartz was one of the smartest coaches in the NFL, in statistucal analysis and things like that. It'll be interesting to see how his tenure starts to play out.

[Fiz]

This is why no one should draft Ryan Mallett fyi

[Cyberjag]

Lawrence Taylor was dumb as a box of rocks.

[DaCityKats]

do people still want some Leslie Frazier after that about the Vikings?

yea i do.i think he was more refering to the offense side of the ball.

[Fiz]

Lawrence Taylor was dumb as a box of rocks.

He's never struck me as particularly dumb in his interviews.

Let he who has never smoked crack on gameday, sent strippers to his opponents hotel room the night before a game, or accidentally had consensual sex with a minor cast the first stone.

[Kevin Greene]

He's never struck me as particularly dumb in his interviews.

Let he who has never smoked crack on gameday, sent strippers to his opponents hotel room the night before a game, or accidentally had consensual sex with a minor cast the first stone.

LT was a joy to watch, disregarding he was often a train wreck as a human being.

[Mr. Scot]

so what suggests, to try to tie it together, that Zimmer's exceptionally smart?

FWIW, I always felt like Schwartz was one of the smartest coaches in the NFL, in statistucal analysis and things like that. It'll be interesting to see how his tenure starts to play out.

A long record of defensive success, even under bad coaches. Plus he's coached both the 4-3 and 3-4 defensive schemes successfully. And add in that he's had good defenses in Cincinnati using guys that mostly aren't what you'd call "top of the heap".

There was talk this offseason that Shanahan was going to try to steal Zimmer for the Skins, but he re-signed in Cincinnati instead.

Sad story about his wife last year

Schwartz is a guy I'd like to see succeed, though the odds are probably stacked against him in Detroit (even post-Millen).

If you asked me to name the smartest defensive mind going, I'd probably say Dick LeBeau, with the late Jim Johnson being second. Johnson's legacy is why people are looking at Sean McDermott as an option (and he's one I'd consider too).

[Urrymonster]

That's out of context. He was simply saying that studying the teams defense currently isn't doing them much good because everyone is playing us the same way. Its not that they don't do it. Its that teams don't play us the same way they do other teams. Until we burn them with pass plays that won't change.

In my opinion that is pretty damning evidence that our HC-OC combo are the major reason we are failing. If it is the case and we are facing the same defensive strategies every game, then any amount of creativity should take advantage of this. I have never really blamed our QBs or WRs this season, we just do not have well designed plays for the personal we have in the passing game.

The flip side is that due to all the rookies they have completely scaled back the play-book. Unfortunately if that is the case, they have also removed all the plays that could net us yards...

Back on topic I think we 'used' to go for smart football players, picking up savvy vets and drafting the players who were more 'football players' than athletic specimens. I am intrigued to see who you consider falling under the 'not so smart' amongst the players. The obvious ones are the WRs & CBs, but other than that I think we have done a pretty good job picking up smart players or at least 'football' players.

Our coaching staff on the other hand...

They are in the mold of thinking that execution outweighs creativity. Find a core set of plays and perfect them, then force teams to deal with a ton of plays that look similar, but you play very well. Which is hard to actually do. However with the majority of the skill positions being rookies on offense, it is hard to fathom how these guys have had the time to perfect these plays. What they really need is even a small bit of creativity from the OC to help them out and make it so they are not the ones having to be game changers this early in their career. The OC should be getting them open or getting easy completions and letting the rookies play slowly develop.

[mav1234]

Comment was out of context, but can you honestly tell me from watching Panthers games that you are surprised by the play calling?

D-Will noticed the Saints were already where he was going before he got there so often he started cutting back pretty quick.

It got us a TD... then it cost us the game.

[Mr. Scot]

Back on topic I think we 'used' to go for smart football players, picking up savvy vets and drafting the players who were more 'football players' than athletic specimens. I am intrigued to see who you consider falling under the 'not so smart' amongst the players. The obvious ones are the WRs & CBs, but other than that I think we have done a pretty good job picking up smart players or at least 'football' players.

More than once in the past few years, the Panthers have talked about having to simplify the defense. From what I've gathered, the need for that has generally come from the secondary (not necessarily all of them, mind you). Zimmer's Bengals had to do a similar thing early this season. the scheme was reportedly too complex for some of the guys running it.

My personal opinion: If you have to dumb down your schemes, you probably have the wrong players :nonod:

Our coaching staff on the other hand...

They are in the mold of thinking that execution outweighs creativity. Find a core set of plays and perfect them, then force teams to deal with a ton of plays that look similar, but you play very well. Which is hard to actually do. However with the majority of the skill positions being rookies on offense, it is hard to fathom how these guys have had the time to perfect these plays. What they really need is even a small bit of creativity from the OC to help them out and make it so they are not the ones having to be game changers this early in their career. The OC should be getting them open or getting easy completions and letting the rookies play slowly develop.

It's a legitimate school of thought among many coaches that deception is largely useless. If your players are better than their players - or if you just execute better than they do - then you'll win, regardless of the scheme.

I've never really bought into that, and especially not these days.

When you've got uber-smart QBs like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees on the other side, or smart offensive coaches like Charlie Weis and Ken Whisenhunt that know how to make the matchups work for them (and against you) it's crazy to think you can just line your guys up and run the same thing over and over again and be effective.

[Mr. Scot]

Comment was out of context, but can you honestly tell me from watching Panthers games that you are surprised by the play calling?

D-Will noticed the Saints were already where he was going before he got there so often he started cutting back pretty quick.

It got us a TD... then it cost us the game.

Williams made a bad decision, but he's not a dumb player. Just the opposite.

The fact that he could see Gregg Williams had Jeff Davidson's number is telling.

[mav1234]

Mr. Scot, would you describe us as running basically the same plays as a team for the last few years? Am I crazy in thinking I've been watching the same thing - occasionally with new faces - for years?

I felt like there was a time when this team had a playbook with reverses, slants (which we tried to get more of this week...), screens, designed cutbacks... dunno. Maybe I'm crazy.

[mav1234]

Williams made a bad decision, but he's not a dumb player. Just the opposite.

The fact that he could see Gregg Williams had Jeff Davidson's number is telling.

Oh, I know D-Will is smart - I wasn't trying to say his mistake meant he was dumb. I was just trying to say he could see what the Saints were doing to us.

Or someone could - it might have been another player. I'd have to dig up the article. Either way, D-Will tried to take advantage of it.

[Mr. Scot]

Mr. Scot, would you describe us as running basically the same plays as a team for the last few years? Am I crazy in thinking I've been watching the same thing - occasionally with new faces - for years?

I felt like there was a time when this team had a playbook with reverses, slants (which we tried to get more of this week...), screens, designed cutbacks... dunno. Maybe I'm crazy.

i don't think our playbook has changed all that much under Davidson (which I guess just makes Dwayne Jarrett look all that much dumber, doesn't it?).

You're not dreaming though. Back in 2008, we had more options on offense. You could suggest that the lack of that now is based on the personnel, or you could say Delhomme's 2009 meltdown necessitated simplification. It'd all be theory though. The results are pretty much the same.